Quote from: TJS;1139653The latter.  I can't imagine they're going to waste time going through their back catalog.  Not even WOTC are going to throw that much money at grifters.

You underestimate WOTCs ability to throw money at grifters.

With WOTC failure is the only option. We knew this was coming since 5e was doing so well and theyd mended so many bridges with the fans and players. We knew sooner or later WOTC would some how, some way, fuck it up. Im just surprised it took them this long. But the minute parasites like Sarkesian and Quin got their claws in the door it was inevitable. WOTC had finally found its solution to that pesky success problem. (fake) Diversity!

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1139651I'm not sure. I've seen the disclaimers on the product pages, but I haven't purchased any of the forbidden fruit. (I've already got a ton of the TSR PDFs)

Anybody bought a TSR product post-labeling?

I grabbed the Premium POD versions of the four core books for AD&D1e the day the disclaimer went up.
Hoping that my hardcovers will dodge the bullet.
Not waiting till WOtC decides to expand on their ' business plans' any further.
I'll let you know as soon as they arrive.

[Edit] Just got the POD's, as unlike most of the products having a POD & POD-PDF purchase match, it was slightly less expensive as they are for my sons to use hopefully down the road if they are still allowed at that point by do-gooders.  I don't want them to feel any shame in enjoying the classics, no matter how 'bad' WOtC decides they are.

This is all hilarious! Back in the 80s American gamers were dealing with the satanic ritual child abuse hysteria and were putting on disclaimers that no actually this isn't real magic and you shouldn't try to do that, now it's another moral panic! America. LOL.

Let's put the transfurry SJWs in a room together with the evangelical Christians and a copy of the PHB and DMG and some dice and see what happens!

Quote from: Razor 007;1139358It's abundantly clear that WOTC doesn't want their game to be compared to TSR and AD&D.  They don't want to hear that all the updates and changes to the game haven't improved the game very much.

Yep!

The only problem was that 'Satanic Panic' was largely regarded as a extreme fringe group movement by most of the populace.
Now with the charged language of the disclaimer and how kids are being educated to be extremely aware of these issues, will potentially change their opinion on a product before they've even cracked the book.

Kids are impressionable.  My friends and I saw these 'Satanic Panic' warnings as something to laugh off as they were so absurd and pretty fanciful.  This new disclaimer all but states that the entire statement is a truth except for one little 'may' stuck in there.
WOtC's attempt to try to pre-emptively judge the quality of the older material for a young reader, when even the arguments being made for this disclaimer in the first place are based on very conflicting opinions of its merit, can just f*ck right off.

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies;1139663The only problem was that 'Satanic Panic' was largely regarded as a extreme fringe group movement by most of the populace.
Now with the charged language of the disclaimer and how kids are being educated to be extremely aware of these issues, will potentially change their opinion on a product before they've even cracked the book.

The damage of the satanic panic was alot more wide spread than many realize due to its scattershot hit and miss. Just with my own little gaming group we had 3 incidents as fallout from that. And they were overall minor compared to what others suffered. Police were being taught to look for D&D books as "evidence" even.

Quote from: Omega;1139672The damage of the satanic panic was alot more wide spread than many realize due to its scattershot hit and miss. Just with my own little gaming group we had 3 incidents as fallout from that. And they were overall minor compared to what others suffered. Police were being taught to look for D&D books as "evidence" even.

Wow, that's just crazy.  Maybe the affect was less in Canada as our small playing groups were aware of the panic, but other than a quick question of the books' validity from someone's Mum because of a TV news story, it passed us by mostly.  No wonder some older players have the past experience to realise what a bad idea disclaimers and feeding the paranoia has.

Most of us realise where this all goes, culminating in eventually damaging the hobby and fracturing the playerbase even further.
Guess younger players will have to learn the hard way, not experiencing it first hand.  I won't be assisting them get there any faster though.

There's one MASSIVE difference between this stuff and the Satanic Panic...the latter was spawned from a legitimate desire to protect children's souls from being corrupted by evil (no matter how ridiculous it seemed), the former is trying to assuage Marxists so they can destroy history.

It's literally misguided good intentions vs. pure evil.

The SJW intrusion into all aspects of our society, including our hobbies and tabletop gaming, is more insidious and pervasive than the Satanic Panic ever was or could be for a variety of reasons:

• The Satanic Panic was based around cooky religious ideas not even most Christians seriously subscribed to and were already in decline at the time it happened, as opposed to Intersectional ideas, which are in ascendancy.
• It happened before the age of the internet or widespread means of electronic publishing, relying on word of mouth and histrionic, sensationalistic documentaries to spread, without access to social media and online means of communication accessible to everyone 24/7, or easy ways to "correct" offending materials or editing them out of existence.
• Only Christians believed in the ideas that the Satanic Panic was based upon, while the vast majority of people across all religions or lack of them are susceptible to the idea of fighting "racism", "sexism" and other forms of prejudice and oppression.
• Fighting prejudice and oppression are inherently noble goals that do not require religious belief and most decent people will readily subscribe to, BUT...
• Most people are gullible, non-critical thinkers and do not question the claims that are presented to them (on ANY topic). They merely accept them on a surface level if they seem plausible enough, and if presented with the idea that some sort of bigoted prejudice exists somewhere and is being opposed, they will fight you tooth and nail if you oppose those efforts, even if that bigotry or prejudice isn't real: "Why would anyone be against fighting racism?!?"

So we're left with a situation where spreading this mind virus is easier than ever before and everyone is susceptible to it, while dealing with a gullible public willing to fight against its own interests because they don't even realize that none of this is real.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1139454Well, I guess we all feel safer now. Anyone up for some OSR/TSR D&D? I am thinking of an acid metal sword & planet world, with a disco soundtrack (just for you, Doc Sammy-kins!).

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1139497YES!

Count me in.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1139506Hey man, I've chased you in like 4 threads now asking about this game. When are we playing?

Well shit, I better go or get off the pot. Alright, how about we merge my Talislanta 'GM Virginity' with this sword 'n planet disco fantasia? Hey, it has an acid haze about it and I'll be just as off-kilter as any players new to Talislanta, so we can all fumblebum like Chads Too Macho for the Dancefloor. Who's down for an awkward Play by Post here on the RPGSite?

(Dear god, we might need one or two veterans to keep overwatch on our game all lest we explode in badwrongfun play... )

Quote from: VisionStorm;1139732The SJW intrusion into all aspects of our society, including our hobbies and tabletop gaming, is more insidious and pervasive than the Satanic Panic ever was or could be for a variety of reasons:

• The Satanic Panic was based around cooky religious ideas not even most Christians seriously subscribed to and were already in decline at the time it happened, as opposed to Intersectional ideas, which are in ascendancy.
• It happened before the age of the internet or widespread means of electronic publishing, relying on word of mouth and histrionic, sensationalistic documentaries to spread, without access to social media and online means of communication accessible to everyone 24/7, or easy ways to "correct" offending materials or editing them out of existence.
• Only Christians believed in the ideas that the Satanic Panic was based upon, while the vast majority of people across all religions or lack of them are susceptible to the idea of fighting "racism", "sexism" and other forms of prejudice and oppression.
• Fighting prejudice and oppression are inherently noble goals that do not require religious belief and most decent people will readily subscribe to, BUT...
• Most people are gullible, non-critical thinkers and do not question the claims that are presented to them (on ANY topic). They merely accept them on a surface level if they seem plausible enough, and if presented with the idea that some sort of bigoted prejudice exists somewhere and is being opposed, they will fight you tooth and nail if you oppose those efforts, even if that bigotry or prejudice isn't real: "Why would anyone be against fighting racism?!?"

So we're left with a situation where spreading this mind virus is easier than ever before and everyone is susceptible to it, while dealing with a gullible public willing to fight against its own interests because they don't even realize that none of this is real.

Exactly, and they are so intent on subverting all forms of entertainment and art because as someone more wise than me said:

Politics is downstream from culture!

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1139661This is all hilarious! Back in the 80s American gamers were dealing with the satanic ritual child abuse hysteria and were putting on disclaimers that no actually this isn't real magic and you shouldn't try to do that, now it's another moral panic! America. LOL.

Take your anti-American bias and stick up your ass.  We didn't invent cancel culture.  We imported it from Europe.  And by "we imported" I means our most European like academics imported it.  

It's only a bigger deal here because the USA is one of the few places left where people are still fighting it.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1139763We didn't invent cancel culture.  We imported it from Europe.  And by "we imported" I means our most European like academics imported it.  

AFAICS it came out of US liberal arts colleges Humanities Departments. Continental European academic culture is quite different (Southern Europe is entirely different), and the rest of the Anglosphere just apes the USA. Rest-of-World still follows US fashion, esp media fashion.

I usually can read about the next crazy thing in the USA well before it hits the UK.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1139763Take your anti-American bias and stick up your ass.  We didn't invent cancel culture.  We imported it from Europe.  And by "we imported" I means our most European like academics imported it.  

It's only a bigger deal here because the USA is one of the few places left where people are still fighting it.

Sorry, but no.
I've been trying to track a bit of the public reaction here in Italy to the whole toppling statues etc. thing. And the nearly universal remark from newspapers of every political inclination has been "these guys are nuts".
And when Harper's letter got published, the other nearly universal reaction has been "thank God there's still someone left in the US with a working brain".

You see, we're Catholics. We don't do puritanism.

Which is why this whole thing is even more annoying for us. We get to see RPG products modified or removed from the shelves because of something going off on your side of the planet. The whole Paizo idea of having to apologize for copaganda would be utterly bollocks here...

I own a lot of the PDFs that now have this ridiculous disclaimer, so I downloaded a couple to check...In Search of Adventure PDF looks the same as before, as does 1st edition PHB and the Rules Cyclopedia. Wondering if they'll even bother editing the actual PDFs or not.

Interesting tidbit: The Dragonlance: Fifth Age products that were done using the SAGA Rules System lack this disclaimer, and so does the dual-statted The Sylvan Veil--but the also-dual-statted Rise of the Titans product has one!

I think I've worked out how they're coding this. Sylvan Veil is only in the general 'Dungeons & Dragons' category under Rules System, while Rise of the Titans is under D&D->Official D&D->2e (AD&D). I imagine that anything labelled "Official D&D" and not labelled '5E' gets hit with the Mark of the Unwoke. This also explains the odd product missing the disclaimer, such as Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities for FR (but not Faiths & Avatars)--they aren't under the Official D&D category for some reason.