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I'm running a 5th edition game right now. We're 5 sessions in (of about 4 to 5 hours each) and there has been no character death.

In every other D&D game I've run continuously at least one character has died before this point, but it just isn't happening. The players keep using best tactics, and whenever a character actually does drop to 0 the damage hasn't been sufficient to kill them outright, and they end up making their saves.

However, the effort of making those saves has been nice and tense. Out of combat I've ruled those checks happen at one hour each, which has lead to some pretty cool "they may die at any time" / "it will be a tough night" / "I'm not sure if he'll make it" / "Maybe you should say some final words" segments where the other players are pacing back and forth in front of a hospital tent, so to speak.

Net win? So far, I think so. I'll kill one of them eventually - but, damn, 5e characters get a tonne of Hit Points.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: Panjumanju;815821I'm running a 5th edition game right now. We're 5 sessions in (of about 4 to 5 hours each) and there has been no character death.

In every other D&D game I've run continuously at least one character has died before this point, but it just isn't happening. The players keep using best tactics, and whenever a character actually does drop to 0 the damage hasn't been sufficient to kill them outright, and they end up making their saves.

However, the effort of making those saves has been nice and tense. Out of combat I've ruled those checks happen at one hour each, which has lead to some pretty cool "they may die at any time" / "it will be a tough night" / "I'm not sure if he'll make it" / "Maybe you should say some final words" segments where the other players are pacing back and forth in front of a hospital tent, so to speak.

I am confused; nobody has any healing available, no healer's kit, and they can't stabilize the 0HP character with a Medicine check, which is at least as easy as a death save (and would at least end the suspense)? I'm not even sure if there's any risk to a Medicine check; does a failure count as a failed death save or make the next death save harder? Or are you using some DMG option that I am unaware of?

We haven't lost anyone yet in our 5e game, and we're up to 3rd level (mostly). There have been a few death saves, but nobody has yet reached two failures.

I've gotten the distinct impression with the past few editions of D&D (since 3rd, at least) that the game designers really want character death to be uncommon at best. I've had a number of characters over the past few years who've been in situations which really should have punched their ticket but didn't; not because the DM was pulling punches, just because the RAW give players so many chances to avoid death.

I was kinda' hoping 5e would be a little better about that, but I wasn't really counting on it. Not that I think characters should be dying all the time due to random suck or anything, I just find it a little incredulous.

Quote from: woodsmoke;815829I've gotten the distinct impression with the past few editions of D&D (since 3rd, at least) that the game designers really want character death to be uncommon at best. I've had a number of characters over the past few years who've been in situations which really should have punched their ticket but didn't; not because the DM was pulling punches, just because the RAW give players so many chances to avoid death.

I was kinda' hoping 5e would be a little better about that, but I wasn't really counting on it. Not that I think characters should be dying all the time due to random suck or anything, I just find it a little incredulous.

well, you're in luck.  5e seems to have brought back more lethality than the past 2 editions.  Even with death saves, you still have a 45% chance of missing three before you make three.  1st level PCs easily drop in one hit like AD&D.  And any damage a dropped PC takes is an automatic failure.  We had a PC die the other day because he was attacked by an animal that just kept eating him before anyone could help

Killing players is easy. You just have to be ruthless. I am not usually so ruthless, because we're all learning and I like to be the Giving GM. However, I'll just leave this right here, and let it "inspire":

Falling Unconscious
If damage reduces you to 0 hit points and fails to kill you, you fall unconscious (see appendix A). This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points.
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 76.)

Death Saving Throws
Damage at 0 Hit Points.
If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 76.)

Unconscious
• An unconscious creature is incapacitated (see the condition), can't move or speak, and is unaware of its surroundings.
• The creature drops whatever it's holding and falls prone.
• The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
• Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
• Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the
attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 107.)

Quote from: rawma;815826I am confused; nobody has any healing available, no healer's kit, and they can't stabilize the 0HP character with a Medicine check, which is at least as easy as a death save (and would at least end the suspense)? I'm not even sure if there's any risk to a Medicine check; does a failure count as a failed death save or make the next death save harder? Or are you using some DMG option that I am unaware of?

We haven't lost anyone yet in our 5e game, and we're up to 3rd level (mostly). There have been a few death saves, but nobody has yet reached two failures.

In this case there were no healer's kits - they were on their own in the wilderness, and all the characters had run out of their healing spells from the battle and needed to wait until the next day to get them back.

Also, I'm not using the skill system; it never occurred to me that Medicine could have stabilised a dying character. I was however giving the player advantages as other characters were tending to his wounds, keeping him hydrated et al. In this case the suspense was a good thing; the players enjoyed it.

I'm still mildly concerned that once you pass a few levels it's very difficult to kill a character, though.

//Panjumanju

Something to keep in mind. Any hit on a downed character is an automatic critical and counts as two failed death saves.

Things like a pair of kobolds or a single Bullywug can be a real terror as they can in one turn finish off any character down.

Quote from: Panjumanju;815833In this case there were no healer's kits - they were on their own in the wilderness, and all the characters had run out of their healing spells from the battle and needed to wait until the next day to get them back.

Also, I'm not using the skill system; it never occurred to me that Medicine could have stabilised a dying character. I was however giving the player advantages as other characters were tending to his wounds, keeping him hydrated et al. In this case the suspense was a good thing; the players enjoyed it.

I suppose if you want that kind of suspense then you have to restrict medicine and healer's kits. You weren't far from killing a PC if they were out of healing and had one down.

QuoteI'm still mildly concerned that once you pass a few levels it's very difficult to kill a character, though.

Opponents should do more damage, and get more area attacks which will include a missed death save for anyone at 0 HP. Without being gratuitously vicious, it's still possible to continue attacking characters who go down: if the opponents suspect the character is faking, or if they are so numerous that some have no better action to take, or if the opponent is such that eating the defeated character is a major priority.

While Moon Druids are pretty tough to do any real harm to, I've had little difficulty snuffing characters.

I've been running Hoard of the Dragon Queen, along with my own adventures. The party is level 6 (just made it to the flying castle), and there have been at least 8 character deaths.

It can happen, but the monsters have to sort of gang up on characters. You try spreading things around even, and yeah, nobody's going to drop.

I generally don't have monsters strike at downed characters, but in a world where every other adventurer has healing powers, and where even the slightest power can make a near death charater hop up and start swinging with full force, intelligent monsters should totally swing at downed characters.

Quote from: Doom;815840I generally don't have monsters strike at downed characters, but in a world where every other adventurer has healing powers, and where even the slightest power can make a near death charater hop up and start swinging with full force, intelligent monsters should totally swing at downed characters.

I hadn't even thought of that. I guess I'm still thinking in terms of old house rules where characters who went down could be healed but at significant cost per point negative; and now cure wounds scales up with spell slot level much faster, which can bring a downed character pretty far up.

Of the three games I play in... 5e, Pathfinder and DCC... 5e is far less deadly so far.
Over the past month our DCC game had 3 deaths (not counting zero lvls), Pathfinder had 4 (followed by too easily obtained resurrections for all) and 5e had none at all. Not the same Players/GMs... and the DCC group is pretty reckless.

We have had a number of PCs reduced to 0 in our 5e game, but only one death since we started... and that was because that PC was off alone somewhere.

Quote from: Panjumanju;815821I'm running a 5th edition game right now. We're 5 sessions in (of about 4 to 5 hours each) and there has been no character death.

In every other D&D game I've run continuously at least one character has died before this point, but it just isn't happening. The players keep using best tactics, and whenever a character actually does drop to 0 the damage hasn't been sufficient to kill them outright, and they end up making their saves.

However, the effort of making those saves has been nice and tense. Out of combat I've ruled those checks happen at one hour each, which has lead to some pretty cool "they may die at any time" / "it will be a tough night" / "I'm not sure if he'll make it" / "Maybe you should say some final words" segments where the other players are pacing back and forth in front of a hospital tent, so to speak.

Net win? So far, I think so. I'll kill one of them eventually - but, damn, 5e characters get a tonne of Hit Points.

//Panjumanju

Are you supposed to be killing X number of characters per a X number of sessions?

Quote from: Sommerjon;815856Are you supposed to be killing X number of characters per a X number of sessions?

I kinda wondered that too. But just assumed he was dismayed that no one was going down and staying down. Sounds like they are going down though.

It seems to me that you are getting the best possible outcome, the suspense of death being always around the corner without the hassle of making new characters and aborting no longer relevant plot threads.

Nothing like Call of Cthulhu and Cthulhu's 'eats 1d6 Investigators per round.'

Hahahahah!

Quote from: Doom;815840I generally don't have monsters strike at downed characters, but in a world where every other adventurer has healing powers, and where even the slightest power can make a near death charater hop up and start swinging with full force, intelligent monsters should totally swing at downed characters.

At the same time why would a monster attack an opponent that is down and seemingly out of the fight. When there are other opponents trying to crush their skull with a mace? Just a thought.

Quote from: Ronin;815875At the same time why would a monster attack an opponent that is down and seemingly out of the fight. When there are other opponents trying to crush their skull with a mace? Just a thought.

Because they're intelligent and that's what the players tend to do when faced with a monster that is likely to get up, like a regenerating troll? Using player tactics against player characters is nasty, and I avoid it for most NPCs, but the elite bodyguard of a powerful villain are going to be ruthless and effective. It's possible for ordinary NPCs with an opponent who was hard to take down and dealt a lot of damage; there's a chance of beating on the supposedly dead body and a chance of wasting an action on a victory dance.

Concentration of fire is an inevitable problem with a hit point system, especially where the hit points reach high totals, like in D&D. If you meet a wizard with three zombies, everyone who can attacks the wizard first; if you meet four perfectly identical wizards, you assume it's a mirror image spell and spread your attacks evenly. Those seem reasonable given typical character knowledge; but four melee opponents in general: concentrate fire if you think they have lots of hit points and average AC, and spread fire if you think they have one hit point each and very high AC (two hits on the same target being wasted). My solution is to expect reasonable roleplaying from the players, to give opponents some kind of compensating bonuses when the players go too far toward unrealistically exploiting the rules, and to play the NPCs as an example of what I expect.

Quote from: Ronin;815875At the same time why would a monster attack an opponent that is down and seemingly out of the fight. When there are other opponents trying to crush their skull with a mace? Just a thought.

Because those downed adventurers are supernatural and will rise up to fight anew if you dont make sure! Either wack em twice more to be sure. Or make sure none of their friends get near for a few rounds.

Which is the other tactic if possible. Prevent helpers from assisting the fallen. But if it looks like theres a good chance the downed PC IS going to get help and be back fighing ASAP then you might want to waste a round making sure they dont. Especially if it was their strongest member.

Seems to me to be some over thinking the motives and thoughts of an orc in the heat of battle, fighting some random guy they have never encountered before. But I can see what your saying.

Depends on the orc. Cowardly, quarrelsome rabble? If they knock someone down, they might start looting the body while the fight is still going and run away if they find anything good. Veteran orc champion? Probably knows what opponents are possible and what strategies are effective. I overthink them ahead of time because it's hard to switch gears among a variety of NPCs and I can't always convert a background description into appropriate tactics quickly enough. And it's easier to weather the player complaints if I've set down in my own notes for each unusual opponent the circumstances in which its most vicious tactics would be used.

Quote from: Ronin;815875At the same time why would a monster attack an opponent that is down and seemingly out of the fight. When there are other opponents trying to crush their skull with a mace? Just a thought.

Because the guy that's down can get right back up again in a heartbeat, so it's MUCH easier to hit him when he's down, than let him get back up and have one more difficult-to-hurt opponent trying to skullcrush?

I can see fungi, zombies, and rocks ignoring a downed foe, but in a world where enemies that aren't dead can pop right back up, it'd be pretty common tactics.

You've got to let the game rules affect the world, or else the game world will stop making sense.

Personally I rarely have a opponent do a kill unless they either have a vendetta against a PC. Or they see or know the PCs are doing it alot. Return the favour.

And I point out to players that if they are slitting throats of slept opponents then that could happen to them in return. You set the tone. Not me. Now live, and die, with it.

Otherwise opponents tend to loot and run if they win. Or move on to new targets if there are adventurers still standing.

Perhaps a carry-over from the past 15 years is the desire for fights and other dangerous encounters to be 'balanced' as individual set pieces (as opposed to being subject to the vagaries of cumulative attrition, plus varying party composition).

So, in the TSR-era version, more resources basically let you plow through more stuff before you're down to the chance of a one-hit kill. That doesn't work so well if you're not getting worn down along the way, in which case the Nigh-Invulnerable --> Nigh-Doomed spectrum is covered in a single fight or not at all.

Making it thus more of a continuous possibility - more like RuneQuest, in a way - calls for making it a very low per-fight probability if there's to be long-term character development in a combat-heavy game.

Exacerbating this is a tendency for players to turn every conflict into a contest of total extermination, so that defeat = tpk. WotC is probably more inclined to cater to this (and the scenario model that is most popular) as a baseline assumption than to do so for the old D&D style of game.

Part of me wants to blame later PC games and MMOs where you die and are right back at it. And often no chance to negotiate or talk. Especially in MMOs. Leading to newer players just throwing themselves at everything because thats all theyve known and thats what was presented as an "RPG".

But that all or nothing attitude has been around since OD&D.

I think 5e presents alot of ways a DM can play it. Totally leathal, or not very dangerous in the normal sense. Threats of all manner and not just the kill you dead sort.

Quote from: Ronin;815885Seems to me to be some over thinking the motives and thoughts of an orc in the heat of battle, fighting some random guy they have never encountered before. But I can see what your saying.

Intelligent monsters should fight intelligently.

Quote from: jeff37923;815907Intelligent monsters should fight intelligently.

That would be instantly surrendering or running away from the band of nutcases who keep wiping out everything thrown at them right?

Quote from: Omega;815911That would be instantly surrendering or running away from the band of nutcases who keep wiping out everything thrown at them right?

Of course not. That means working together in overwhelming numbers, being subtle, etc. Like stealing a wizard's spellbook while they are resting and focusing fire upon the cleric first in combat.

That said, I don't run a world where there's only manageable threats according to party size. If you stumble upon the ugly prematurely, you should run. If you survive, be aware that they too are aware of you now.

A thinking opponent is horrifying. But it is also way more fun. That's why we all get eventually bored from CPU battles and seek out human competition. Why would I deprive my PCs from that sort of opportunity?

Quote from: Omega;815911That would be instantly surrendering or running away from the band of nutcases who keep wiping out everything thrown at them right?

Or making sure that the nutcase who has been fighting you and is now down, must be ensured to stay down permanently.

Quote from: Omega;815911That would be instantly surrendering or running away from the band of nutcases who keep wiping out everything thrown at them right?

Again, it depends on the game world.

Suppose you're in a typical D&D world, where there are definitely gods, and there is definitely an afterlife, and an outer planes.

If Gruumsh punishes orcs that run away, and such punishment is not a matter of pure faith but simply a fact of reality, then you're not going to have many orcs that simply run, even against apparently overpowering enemies. I mean, it can happen...but it's not as sure a thing as it would be in the "real" world.

Quote from: jeff37923;815925Or making sure that the nutcase who has been fighting you and is now down, must be ensured to stay down permanently.

That was preferable in AD&D. You got 1000 exp for getting offed and raised. :eek:

Quote from: Doom;815889I can see fungi, zombies, and rocks ignoring a downed foe, but in a world where enemies that aren't dead can pop right back up, it'd be pretty common tactics.

You've got to let the game rules affect the world, or else the game world will stop making sense.

zombies would probably be the monsters most likely to eat you once you go down in my book, but otherwise i agree.

whether a monster attacks a downed opponent or not is totally situational, there are many factors to consider. some will (all the time/sometimes/in very specific circumstances), some won't. that keeps the players uncertain and afraid, which is always a bonus.

Quote from: Omega;815906Leading to newer players just throwing themselves at everything because thats all theyve known and thats what was presented as an "RPG".

i have seen this a with younger players who's first experience with "roleplaying" was an mmorpg. it can be quite enjoyable.

"nooooo! ... can we redo the fight?!"

:nono:

Exhaustion has upped the lethality of my campaign, or at least the tension. Even a relatively "easy" fight is hella tougher when all of your ability checks are at a Disadvantage and you can only take half moves.

The problem is that we keep on forgetting to implement the Exhaustion effects! So I'll be making flashy Condition cards to help.

Quote from: Omega;815931That was preferable in AD&D. You got 1000 exp for getting offed and raised. :eek:

ONCE!!  

IF the DM felt that the player was sadder but wiser for the experience. So if you went down swinging chanting " 1K XP BABY!"  chances are good you wouldn't get it.

Quote from: Sommerjon;815856Are you supposed to be killing X number of characters per a X number of sessions?

No, I'm just afraid they might start thinking themselves immortal. I want players to think of running away if they're in over their heads. It's a sandbox, and if this keeps going I expect they'll waltz in somewhere over their heads assuming they couldn't possibly die, and as a result they all do.

If a character dies now and again it keeps the other characters in check with their mortality.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: Panjumanju;815955It's a sandbox, and if this keeps going I expect they'll waltz in somewhere over their heads assuming they couldn't possibly die, and as a result they all do.

Mmm, that's the smell of some good Dungeons & Dragonsing 101.  Lather, rinse, repeat. You can tell a kid the stove is hot, but he still won't know.

Quote from: Ronin;815875At the same time why would a monster attack an opponent that is down and seemingly out of the fight. When there are other opponents trying to crush their skull with a mace? Just a thought.

Mechanically, if they roll a natural 20 on the death save, they get back up and keep fighting.  This simulates what we have seen in a zillion action movies.  Taking a moment to thwack them when they are down helps prevent that, much like we have seen in a zillion action movies.

I have had monsters/NPCs thwack PCs when they are down.  Depends on the circumstances.

I should create a permanent injury list.  Every time your PC drops to 0 hp, you roll on the list and get a permanent injury.  I wonder if that would make players a lot more cautious instead of always thinking they have 3 extra rounds before dying with no other ill effects ;)

Quote from: Old One Eye;815965Mechanically, if they roll a natural 20 on the death save, they get back up and keep fighting.  This simulates what we have seen in a zillion action movies.  Taking a moment to thwack them when they are down helps prevent that, much like we have seen in a zillion action movies.

I have had monsters/NPCs thwack PCs when they are down.  Depends on the circumstances.

For me it depends on the monster and its mindset. A hungry ghoul might fall on a fallen foe and start chowing down. A tactically savvy warrior might put a shot in a downed foe especially if not hard pressed by living enemies. Other intelligent enemies might stabilize a fallen enemy and drag them away from the battle for torture/interrogation if there are enough allies still around to permit this.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;815967For me it depends on the monster and its mindset. A hungry ghoul might fall on a fallen foe and start chowing down. A tactically savvy warrior might put a shot in a downed foe especially if not hard pressed by living enemies. Other intelligent enemies might stabilize a fallen enemy and drag them away from the battle for torture/interrogation if there are enough allies still around to permit this.

Yep, yep, yep.  The enemy's mindset is critically important.  In a recent battle in a game I'm running against slavers where the PCs got their tails kicked, the slavers were stabilizing the downed PCs' wounds so they cound be bound and sold on the block.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;815966I should create a permanent injury list.  Every time your PC drops to 0 hp, you roll on the list and get a permanent injury.  I wonder if that would make players a lot more cautious instead of always thinking they have 3 extra rounds before dying with no other ill effects ;)

Astonishing idea. Shame they didn't put something like that in the DMG!

We have had one PC death in our game so far...coming when a PC was cut down, and one his second Death Save, he rolled a natural 1, which killed him instantly because it counts as his second and third failure.

I dunno, that seems a bit gamey, and like it's taking advantage of the fight being under a turn structure rather than being a chaotic melee.

Post-fight, sure; but during the fight, things should be too messy.

(And then there's question "how much medical work can someone full of adrenaline really do in six seconds, to a patient so badly wounded they'll die in 18 seconds". In games with longer combat rounds, the medic would have more time to do things, but the opponents would have more time to "distract" them.)

Quote from: Exploderwizard;815954ONCE!!  

IF the DM felt that the player was sadder but wiser for the experience. So if you went down swinging chanting " 1K XP BABY!"  chances are good you wouldn't get it.

This is why you make sure to weep profusely (pull nose hairs if necessary) and rail at the cruel cruel god of RNG that caused your poor defenseless magic user to be struck down in his or her prime!
Why RNG god whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! :cheerleader:

Quote from: Sacrosanct;815966I should create a permanent injury list.  Every time your PC drops to 0 hp, you roll on the list and get a permanent injury.  I wonder if that would make players a lot more cautious instead of always thinking they have 3 extra rounds before dying with no other ill effects ;)

Yeah, I think I'd like to see something like that in play.
In our game last night the rogue went down to 0 and revived three times in one fight against an Otyugh... brought back by Paladin/Potion/I can't remember... and at no point did he try to separate himself from the fight... the whole of which really should have had the beast pursuing us down the wide corridors while we shot it with our ranged spells/weapons... rather than running to sit on its lap like it was fucking Santa.

Quote from: Simlasa;815975Yeah, I think I'd like to see something like that in play.
In our game last night the rogue went down to 0 and revived three times in one fight against an Otyugh... brought back by Paladin/Potion/I can't remember... and at no point did he try to separate himself from the fight... the whole of which really should have had the beast pursuing us down the wide corridors while we shot it with our ranged spells/weapons... rather than running to sit on its lap like it was fucking Santa.

DMG, page 272. Everything from Minor Scar to Lose an Eye.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;815966I should create a permanent injury list.  Every time your PC drops to 0 hp, you roll on the list and get a permanent injury.  I wonder if that would make players a lot more cautious instead of always thinking they have 3 extra rounds before dying with no other ill effects ;)

Lingering Injuries table page 272 in the DMG.
When takes a critical hit, or When drops to 0 hp but does not die, or When fails a death save by 5.

I am using it when the PC is at zero and gets hit again as that is an automatic critical and probably would have a lasting effect even if its just a scar.

Next page has system shock! Which is more lethal at lower levels than high... Kind of like the AD&D version, just not as forgiving.

Well, in our first 5th Ed game:
I got knocked down by a max damage Longbow shot (9 damage = my 9HP); I made my death save, and fortunately was on a roof, so I didn't get mauled by a couple of war dogs below.

my son got critical'd in his first round, and failed his three death saves afterward. 1st Character death.

Chasing after the slavers that took our townspeople, I managed to save a few from the slave wagon, before again being brought to 0HP. I was saved from death by the people I saved. (we rolled for it, and I went 5 rolls before finally dying)

In the 2nd game:
The 3rd-level Barbarian with 41HP, got put down in the big fight. The Druid patched him up with Medicine two successful death saves later, so he's at 1HP, when we wrapped up last night's game. Pretty much everyone got hurt a bit, but he got the lion's share.

I'd say it's harder to "insta-kill" PC's, but death is still very real. More to the point, it makes "returning villains" more likely (especially if a GM fudges the death saves)

Quote from: Ladybird;815972I dunno, that seems a bit gamey, and like it's taking advantage of the fight being under a turn structure rather than being a chaotic melee.

Post-fight, sure; but during the fight, things should be too messy.

(And then there's question "how much medical work can someone full of adrenaline really do in six seconds, to a patient so badly wounded they'll die in 18 seconds". In games with longer combat rounds, the medic would have more time to do things, but the opponents would have more time to "distract" them.)

In general, I agree.  However, as a game the turn structure works just fine.  Or at least, I have yet to see an alternative that works better at the table.  

It helps me to justify things to imagine that the actual battle occurring is not specifically what happens at the table.  Rather, table play is stylized symbolism of the actual battle.  For instance, I do not think of turns as six seconds, but rather, turns as whatever amount of time necessary for the action with six seconds as a mere generic recommendation.  

Kind of hokey, but overall the game structure works damn well at my table.

Quote from: Omega;815978Lingering Injuries table page 272 in the DMG.
When takes a critical hit, or When drops to 0 hp but does not die, or When fails a death save by 5.

I am using it when the PC is at zero and gets hit again as that is an automatic critical and probably would have a lasting effect even if its just a scar.

Next page has system shock! Which is more lethal at lower levels than high... Kind of like the AD&D version, just not as forgiving.

I'll point that out to our GM... though I kinda doubt he'll make use of it. Players were joshing him last night about being 'too nice' but I think they were at least partially serious, not wanting him to pull punches as much as he seemed to be.
My PC is a Wild Magic Sorcerer and he's yet to have me roll on the Surge table.

Quote from: Simlasa;816001I'll point that out to our GM... though I kinda doubt he'll make use of it. Players were joshing him last night about being 'too nice' but I think they were at least partially serious, not wanting him to pull punches as much as he seemed to be.
My PC is a Wild Magic Sorcerer and he's yet to have me roll on the Surge table.

I would be really bummed.

That's part of the FUN.

Quote from: Panjumanju;815955

Quote from: Sommerjon;815856Are you supposed to be killing X number of characters per a X number of sessions?

No, I'm just afraid they might start thinking themselves immortal. I want players to think of running away if they're in over their heads. It's a sandbox, and if this keeps going I expect they'll waltz in somewhere over their heads assuming they couldn't possibly die, and as a result they all do.

If a character dies now and again it keeps the other characters in check with their mortality.

//Panjumanju

Hmmm.  You say no, but then follow it up with a yes.

Quote from: Panjumanju;815955No, I'm just afraid they might start thinking themselves immortal. I want players to think of running away if they're in over their heads. It's a sandbox, and if this keeps going I expect they'll waltz in somewhere over their heads assuming they couldn't possibly die, and as a result they all do.

If a character dies now and again it keeps the other characters in check with their mortality.

//Panjumanju

Next time they go looking for an encounter, have them run into some impossibly huge monster that would obviously murder them all instantly. Then make it so that they haven't been spotted yet, which gives them a chance to back away.

How do you guys feel about getting injuries and such not just when you hit 0, but when you take a lot of damage? For instance, in my game last night, my little brother's character fell down a steep drop and took 3d6; he got reduced to 1 hit point on the spot. But after the others found him they restored him back to near full health and that was that.

Should there be any lasting scar from that? Which also reminds me: how does healing work in D&D? Suppose something claws up your face. Does healing it simply make it as if it never happened? Or does it scar over, with the marks left over as if they had healed naturally?

Hit points are a necessary abstraction that has been defined differently over the years and systems. As for 5e...

Hit Points
Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck. Creatures with more hit points are more difficult to kill. Those with fewer hit points are more fragile. [...]
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 74.)

As for adding scars, physical or emotional or whatever, that is completely up to GM prerogative and campaign setting relevance. DMG does offer Sanity, Honor, Wounds, etc. and they are all just recommendations on how to. You are free to scribble up your own systems and tables.

As to my preference? Depends on the game offered by GM & their take on campaign setting. Samurai game with dishonorable prat fall, plus good. Pirate game with fetching scar #2 on the wounds chart, double plus good.
:)

Quote from: Sommerjon;816006Hmmm.  You say no, but then follow it up with a yes.

The goal is not to kill characters - the goal is to make players remember they're characters are mortal and *could* die.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;816036How do you guys feel about getting injuries and such not just when you hit 0, but when you take a lot of damage?

That's already in the game. The Injury table applies in several circumstances, and the Shock table applies whenever you take as much as half HP damage from a single instance. I think the two of them together are already what you're looking for.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;816036Should there be any lasting scar from that? Which also reminds me: how does healing work in D&D? Suppose something claws up your face. Does healing it simply make it as if it never happened? Or does it scar over, with the marks left over as if they had healed naturally?

I have always played DnD as magical healing leaves no scars, natural healing leaves scars.  Never had it do anything but cosmetic effects other than the extreme case where someone puts their hand in a Sphere of Annihilation or whatever.

Quote from: Panjumanju;816082The goal is not to kill characters - the goal is to make players remember they're characters are mortal and *could* die.



That's already in the game. The Injury table applies in several circumstances, and the Shock table applies whenever you take as much as half HP damage from a single instance. I think the two of them together are already what you're looking for.

//Panjumanju

Okay. Do spells like Cure Wounds heal things like broken legs or injuries? Or is it just HP?

Basically I am wondering since if I want to start throwing in injuries like that into the game the players are going to try to fix it of course. So I have to know what would work.

One reading of Cure spells and potions is that it essentially removes exhaustion and clears the mind. But other readings seem to indicate that it heals and mends. There is mention of removing a scar with a spell I believe. How much removed? Who knows.

It depends on how you read damage at your table? stamina or meat? Both?

Build off from the base assumption and you'll have an idea what cures and such will and wont cover.

Quote from: Panjumanju;816082

Quote from: Panjumanju;815955

Quote from: Panjumanju;815821I'm running a 5th edition game right now. We're 5 sessions in (of about 4 to 5 hours each) and there has been no character death.

In every other D&D game I've run continuously at least one character has died before this point, but it just isn't happening. The players keep using best tactics, and whenever a character actually does drop to 0 the damage hasn't been sufficient to kill them outright, and they end up making their saves.

Net win? So far, I think so. I'll kill one of them eventually - but, damn, 5e characters get a tonne of Hit Points.

No, I'm just afraid they might start thinking themselves immortal. I want players to think of running away if they're in over their heads. It's a sandbox, and if this keeps going I expect they'll waltz in somewhere over their heads assuming they couldn't possibly die, and as a result they all do.

If a character dies now and again it keeps the other characters in check with their mortality.

The goal is not to kill characters - the goal is to make players remember they're characters are mortal and *could* die.

Are these players brand new to gaming?
If not and these are your established gaming group.  I would hazard a good guess they already realize their characters are not immortal.

Unfortunately all I'm hearing is "Friggin characters ain't dieing, WTF? Sumbitches.  I kill one of these mofos yet. Mark my words!"

Quote from: Sommerjon;816152Unfortunately all I'm hearing is "Friggin characters ain't dieing, WTF? Sumbitches.  I kill one of these mofos yet. Mark my words!"

That is because it is all you are willing to hear, sommerjon. It is not a problem with what Panjumanju is saying, it is entirely a problem with it not matching what the voices in your head are saying. You think you'd get tired of this schtick by now.

Quote from: jeff37923;816154That is because it is all you are willing to hear, sommerjon. It is not a problem with what Panjumanju is saying, it is entirely a problem with it not matching what the voices in your head are saying. You think you'd get tired of this schtick by now.

Sorry jeffy, we get this from panju
"In every other D&D game I've run continuously at least one character has died before this point, but it just isn't happening"

"I'll kill one of them eventually"

"If a character dies now and again it keeps the other characters in check with their mortality"

But somehow he wants us to believe
"The goal is not to kill characters"?

Nah, I don't think so.

I gamed with Dms that don't feel they did their job unless one or more PCs die.  The games end being meh more often than not.

Quote from: Sommerjon;816152Are these players brand new to gaming?

Two of them have never roleplayed before in their lives. Two of them are moderately experienced, and one is very experienced, specifically in 3rd edition Dungeons & Dragons.

Quote from: Sommerjon;816156Sorry jeffy, we get this from panju
"In every other D&D game I've run continuously at least one character has died before this point, but it just isn't happening"

"I'll kill one of them eventually"

"If a character dies now and again it keeps the other characters in check with their mortality"

But somehow he wants us to believe
"The goal is not to kill characters"?

Nah, I don't think so.

I was being flippant with those remarks, and I clarified my intentions well since. And you you think that I'm being somehow dishonest when I say the goal is not to kill characters?

To further clarify: The game lacks verisimilitude when there is no mortal threat. I don't particularly want to run an everyone-is-special-fun-time game, but I've noticed the slide in that direction by virtue of the 5th edition rules. Some posters have smartly pointed out that the Death Save mechanic can subsume the tense element of mortal risk without character death, but I worry that the players, unprepared, may march themselves into a TPK. My concern is avoiding that outcome with impartiality.

It *would have been lovely* if a character had died by this point, because then this probably wouldn't be an issue. I'm not influencing the rules or otherwise pushing characters to their death.

So, yes - I want you to somehow believe that my goal is not to kill characters.

//Panjumanju

Next time they make a rash decision, let them have it.

Quote from: Panjumanju;816179To further clarify: The game lacks verisimilitude when there is no mortal threat. I don't particularly want to run an everyone-is-special-fun-time game, but I've noticed the slide in that direction by virtue of the 5th edition rules. Some posters have smartly pointed out that the Death Save mechanic can subsume the tense element of mortal risk without character death, but I worry that the players, unprepared, may march themselves into a TPK. My concern is avoiding that outcome with impartiality.

It *would have been lovely* if a character had died by this point, because then this probably wouldn't be an issue. I'm not influencing the rules or otherwise pushing characters to their death.

So, yes - I want you to somehow believe that my goal is not to kill characters.

//Panjumanju

In the end you kinda end up with the same end result. Someone is rolling up a new character, possibly several someones. And they may not learn from the mistake even then. Weve had enough threads here showing that.

Some thoughts. Not good ideas by far for some. But they are viable for others.

1: Have the PCs run into something thats way stronger than they likely can handle. Make it clear through description and word that if they charge in they may likely go down. If they still insist. Then theres the learning experience.

2: simmilar to 1, but you dont tell them. Possibly resulting in a total loss. Then have a local NPC healer type come in and help. Even if its just stabalizing. This balances out pulverizing them as an object lesson and the NPC can lead to adventures. Such as asking in return for the help that they go get something.

3: Introduce an NPC and let the players get to know them. Then off the NPC in a way that demonstrates that caution is advised. Doesnt allways work as some players view NPCs as expendable resources.

Or option 4: Just point out that wilderness encounters are easy compared to delving. Ive had NPCs wander by and point that out. Like a party carrying dead back to town and mentioning how easy it was getting to the site and then WHAM!

If they ignore that then thats their own call.

Quote from: Omega;816210Or option 4: Just point out that wilderness encounters are easy compared to delving. Ive had NPCs wander by and point that out. Like a party carrying dead back to town and mentioning how easy it was getting to the site and then WHAM!

Wilderness encounters are supposed to be harder than delving.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;816212Wilderness encounters are supposed to be harder than delving.

You can rest in the wilderness and likely not get jumped again. In a dungeon you might not even get a chance to short rest. you cannot just chuck everything at an encounter and recharge for the next.