Dungeons and Dragons Dilema v2: Barbarian Question

Thanatos02 · August 13, 2007, 03:36:23 PM

Quote from: SosthenesYes, but the same's true for barbarians, so this really is no argument here.

Less true. Barbarians have way more options. Magic items and bows are just two.

Cerulean Lion · August 13, 2007, 04:08:30 PM

Quote from: pspahnHa!

Well, I was speaking from a GM's point of view and it seemed like there was a lot of disagreement with what a GM could rule (Cerulean Lion mentioned laughing in the GM's face) so I was just checking to make sure.

Pete

Pspahn -- when did I speak of laughing in the GM's face?
I posted (#42) to mock the player's claim that Rage was as powerful as bearshape. But I'm sure I never intentionally mocked the GM.

pspahn · August 13, 2007, 04:19:59 PM

Quote from: Cerulean LionPspahn -- when did I speak of laughing in the GM's face?
I posted (#42) to mock the player's claim that Rage was as powerful as bearshape. But I'm sure I never intentionally mocked the GM.

I'm really on the ball with your posts. First I missed your emoticon and now I'm misquoting you. My mistake.

It was James McMurray who said that.

Quote from: James McMurrayI've played some non combat oriented characters with themes myself, and I'd laugh in a GM's face (or at least politely decline) any option that took away my player control every time I got into combat and wanted to contribute.

I think your username is throwing me off. I like it.

Pete

Sosthenes · August 13, 2007, 04:22:06 PM

Quote from: Thanatos02Less true. Barbarians have way more options. Magic items and bows are just two.

Well, even under the most restricting circumstances, a bear-shaping barbarian would have those options, too. And in the usual group situations, those matter even less, as most of the time other members take care. Up until recently I though that rage prohibits ranged combat (probably thinking of other systems) -- just because most players with barbarians rather neglected that part. Compared to fighters/rangers/clerics with the appropriate feats or simple blaster mages, they just don't really contribute enough in that section. Usually it's better for half the group to void their own damage potential just to bring the barbarian closer

Settembrini · August 13, 2007, 04:38:16 PM

Fuck you all! What kind of games do you play?
A Bear is totally lame. I mean, it´s CR 4? WTF is the problem? (and that´s the scary bear. Other bears are CR2. Wow.)

Let him be a Bear as often as he wants.
It´s D&D guys, don´t sweat it.

EDIT: You all need to play way more RIFTS. Balance Nazis!

Lee Short · August 13, 2007, 04:48:11 PM

Quote from: SettembriniFuck you all! What kind of games do you play?
A Bear is totally lame. I mean, it´s CR 4? WTF is the problem? (and that´s the scary bear. Other bears are CR2. Wow.)

Let him be a Bear as often as he wants.
It´s D&D guys, don´t sweat it.

EDIT: You all need to play way more RIFTS. Balance Nazis!

A PC wildshaped into an animal is very very different than the actual animal itself. It keeps its base hit dice, feats, BAB, saves, etc. A Barbarian 6 wildshaped into a brown bear is fearsome indeed.

The game will simply not be any fun for the other players if the GM approves this. People's fun is worth sweating.

EDITED: To remove contentious language.

Settembrini · August 13, 2007, 04:50:28 PM

Oh, I know Wildshape, believe me!

I´m just saying:
Let him turn into a bear. No wildshape. He´ll be the bear with the stats of a bear. Right out of the MM.

EDIT: Lee, you harshly edited your post. Still, my point remains.

Pierce Inverarity · August 13, 2007, 05:01:51 PM

[Sudden Experience of Profound Disconnect with Possibly Swinish Implications] It has never bothered me as a player, evar, when somebody else's PC was a physically more powerful fighter than mine. [/Disconnect]

Lee Short · August 13, 2007, 05:06:01 PM

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity[Sudden Experience of Profound Disconnect with Possibly Swinish Implications] It has never bothered me as a player, evar, when somebody else's PC was a physically more powerful fighter than mine. [/Disconnect]

I never really minded if someone had a better character than mine...if they rolled better, planned better, whatever. But if there are any other fighters in this party, they will be completely irrelevant during combat, which is supposed to be their chance to shine. Heck, pretty much the entire rest of the party will be irrelevant during combat. That's rarely fun for them.

LeSquide · August 13, 2007, 07:26:34 PM

Quote from: Lee ShortA PC wildshaped into an animal is very very different than the actual animal itself. It keeps its base hit dice, feats, BAB, saves, etc. A Barbarian 6 wildshaped into a brown bear is fearsome indeed.

The game will simply not be any fun for the other players if the GM approves this. People's fun is worth sweating.

EDITED: To remove contentious language.

If he doesn't get any magical item bonuses, even if he gets the benefit of the bear's strength, it won't look that out of place against the Barbarian 6 who has normal gear and can make use of different combat options.

That being said, I'm looking at stuff for lower levels...and the Black Bear might make a good compromise for a low level badass bear barbarian. They have some decent natural weapons, but even if you go with the default transformed strength (19) that's right where a raging barbarian might be (much less a raging half-orc barbarian.)

LeSquide · August 13, 2007, 07:28:27 PM

Quote from: Lee ShortI never really minded if someone had a better character than mine...if they rolled better, planned better, whatever. But if there are any other fighters in this party, they will be completely irrelevant during combat, which is supposed to be their chance to shine. Heck, pretty much the entire rest of the party will be irrelevant during combat. That's rarely fun for them.

That's only true if it's a Brown Bear at low levels. As they level up, the situation will at first gradually, then rapidly change.

Thanatos02 · August 13, 2007, 11:36:28 PM

Quote from: LeSquidebear barbarian.

Bearbarian.

Pseudoephedrine · August 14, 2007, 12:49:20 AM

If he's wildshaping, all his kit merges into his new form and becomes non-functional. That doesn't matter much for spellcasters because they've got spells and buffs they can drop on themselves to replace them, but for a barbarian? He's hosed.

Thanatos02 · August 14, 2007, 01:41:58 AM

Quote from: PseudoephedrineIf he's wildshaping, all his kit merges into his new form and becomes non-functional. That doesn't matter much for spellcasters because they've got spells and buffs they can drop on themselves to replace them, but for a barbarian? He's hosed.

Maybe he could throw rocks? Hehe.

But, you know, if a bear is Large sized, and he could throw rocks, that's like an instant invitation to Hulking Hurler and uranium boulders (with spikes, for another d4).

Sosthenes · August 14, 2007, 06:13:51 AM

Quote from: PseudoephedrineIf he's wildshaping, all his kit merges into his new form and becomes non-functional. That doesn't matter much for spellcasters because they've got spells and buffs they can drop on themselves to replace them, but for a barbarian? He's hosed.

That's a rather silly arena situation. Most of the time, you've got your companions at your side -- and even without them, if I'm a bear from the very start, most of my items will probably be useful to my bear shape. And there are lots of possibilities, from special equipment that stays useful during shaping to rather mundane bear-only stuff (barding).