The whole industry is built on the assumption that gamers buy books they'll never actually play.  Which is one of the reasons why that whole "freeloading gamers" shit they tried to pull a while back was so utterly craven and dishonest.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalThe whole industry is built on the assumption that gamers buy books they'll never actually play.  Which is one of the reasons why that whole "freeloading gamers" shit they tried to pull a while back was so utterly craven and dishonest.

:confused:  I think I missed this...

Quote from: Zachary The First:confused:  I think I missed this...

  It was about 2 years ago.

  Essentially within a period of maybe a week, three different game designers posted to RPGnet about how they'd had it up to here with these "freeloading gamers" who only buy one rule book for a group of 6 players.

  It was funny because the term came out of nowhere and in a very organised manner.  I think it was an example of an industry meme attempting to implant itself in gamer consciousness.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalIt was about 2 years ago.

  Essentially within a period of maybe a week, three different game designers posted to RPGnet about how they'd had it up to here with these "freeloading gamers" who only buy one rule book for a group of 6 players.

  It was funny because the term came out of nowhere and in a very organised manner.  I think it was an example of an industry meme attempting to implant itself in gamer consciousness.

:roofle:

Are you comfortable naming names?  Because everything else being equal, I'd REALLY VERY MUCH like to avoid these designers.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalIt was about 2 years ago.

  Essentially within a period of maybe a week, three different game designers posted to RPGnet about how they'd had it up to here with these "freeloading gamers" who only buy one rule book for a group of 6 players.

  It was funny because the term came out of nowhere and in a very organised manner.  I think it was an example of an industry meme attempting to implant itself in gamer consciousness.

I would but I seriously can't remember.

EDIT : It was funny though "Hey, let's try and guilt-trip people into buying more copies of the same book!"

To answer the thread...

I'm a notorious, but recovering pack rat.  Having gone through several moves, I've developed a half-assed Buddhist attitude of "the more things you own, the more they own you," so I've purged the library several times -- coincidentally, just before every move.

I now just limit my collection to immediate D&D3.5 items -- particularly adventure modules because I've found I get more ideas and inspiration from a good Necromancer Games or Goodman Games module than a big campaign setting...and they're much smaller and lighter to pack and carry.

Some other untouchable odds and ends are my Tekumel collection and a couple of the dreaded Forge games.

Freeloading Gamers threadProbably had some antecedents which didn't come up immediately.

I prefer games that mesh with my general assumption that only the GM needs to know the rules thoroughly, and players won't be handicapped excessively by being taught. Of course this doesn't excuse players who can't be troubled to learn.

You guys are sick.

Treasure your books!!!!!1111one1!!

Good searchin' there Bunny.

Bruce Baugh eh?  I thought I remembered a Lobo Bianco involved.

I sold off and gave away a metric ton of RPG stuff when I moved from Boston to Seattle. The sad thing is, I doubt that I could even list the books I got rid of without the help of a distributor catalog or something along those lines.

I purged almost everything except for: AD&D, D&D, Dying Earth, Warhammer FRP, Feng Shui, Talislanta, some of the indie games I own, and a few OOP games (classic TSR games like Gamma World).

Everything else, including about 90% of the d20 stuff I ever bought and a ton of author's copies, went out the door.

Since then, the only RPG books I've bought aside from Dungeon Crawl Classics and some indie games have been Exalted 2e, Ptolus, Shadowrun 4e, and Hollow Earth Expedition.

"Freeloaders" are awesome for the hobby. They transform a lone dude with an RPG and an urge to run it to an active GM with a gaming group. One of the major strengths of RPGs is that, for casual players, it costs $0 to participate.

Quote from: mearls"Freeloaders" are awesome for the hobby. They transform a lone dude with an RPG and an urge to run it to an active GM with a gaming group. One of the major strengths of RPGs is that, for casual players, it costs $0 to participate.

Amen.

This is the norm in Uruguay, as getting books for everyone can be hideously expensive. I know many groups that choose to get one core rulebook, and pool their money for sourcebooks. More bang for the buck, and more players into the hobby. Win-Win! :cool:

I've long since stopped trying to "get rid" of my gaming books. When I was younger and foolish I periodically purged books this way; but I stopped when inevitably I ended up regretting not having access to some gamebook I'd been "absolutely sure" I'd never have any use for.

So now, even if its a game I'm 99% sure I'll never play, or a book I'm 99% sure I'll never use, I keep it.

RPGPundit

Quote from: John MorrowIf everyone did that, I suspect the commercial part of the hobby would collapse.  I suspect that large numbers of the role-playing books that get bought never get played.  Remove those sales and I suspect a lot of FLGSs and smaller RPG companies would go over.  Heck, I don't know if I'll ever play DitV but I bought a copy to see what it's all about.  If I wasn't willing to do that, that would be one less Indie sale.

True now, but it wasn't always so.

Also, while that may be good for the industry, the industry is tanking anyway.  I've seen numerous industry insiders post about it now, and even from the outside it's hard not to spot the companies going under.  If one follows Ken Hite's columns the collapse of the commercial side of the hobby is a frequent topic.

And the thing is, I'm not sure in this case good for the industry is good for the hobby.  I'm in it for the hobby, and the hobby is not improved by companies being incentivised to put stuff other than actual play as a priority in their designs.

Personally, I think the industry is screwed anyway so I'm not too worried about that, but even if not I'd happily see the industry tank if the result was a healthier hobby.  

I also note though, that the preeminent game out there is DnD and that is all about the actual play.  So I even wonder if the current received wisdom on game design is right, the best selling game on the market is designed to be played rather than read which is why the John Wick rant about it looking like a textbook utterly misses the point.  DnD is a manual designed to help you play a game, it doesn't need to be interesting because it understands that interesting belongs to the game, not the book.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalGood searchin' there Bunny.

Bruce Baugh eh?  I thought I remembered a Lobo Bianco involved.

I was pretty sure it was Bruce.  Although generally I like the guy, he was talking crap on that occasion and the very idea that players are freeloaders for not buying stuff they don't actually need to play is insulting and frankly stupid.

There is no moral obligation to buy product, product should sell itself on the basis of being quality stuff that is useful to the buyer.