So I'm still running my Pathfinder RPG converted Curse of the Crimson Throne. In it, the PCs run up against an Umbral Dragon (Second cousin to the Shadow Dragon.) Anyway with just a few good rolls AND some decent strategy, the Dragon managed to take down 3 PCs in about...15 rounds. The party consisted of a human bard 13/fighter 1, half orc fighter 12/wizard 5, assimar oracle 14th, gnome summoner 14, and a half orc alchemist 13. So it went like this: the Dragon did a vital bite on the half orc and the followed up the next round with a full round attack...and killed him. Before that, he bit into the bard/fighter and proceeded to use snatch to ground him down with his grapple. The PC survived the biting but died from the wounds and impact on the ground after the dragon raised its head/neck to a height of 50 feet and dropped him. Finally after dropping to below half its HP, it managed to slay the other PC by using a double dose of breath weapon (16d8, DC 28 save) which she failed... So then the dragon watched the PCs hightail it out of there, but left the corpses of the fallen after it collected its spoils.
Anyway this is just ONE dragon and one I had thought the PCs might defeat rather quickly...but fortunately with good rolls, it proved to go much differently than I feared. Mostly I just wonder how the PCs will handle facing off against a nearly complete Great Wyrm Blue... as it's pretty darn big and terrifying... And this was just an Old Umbral Dragon.
Quotethe Dragon managed to take down 3 PCs in about...15 rounds.
QuoteThe party consisted of a human bard 13/fighter 1, half orc fighter 12/wizard 5, assimar oracle 14th, gnome summoner 14, and a half orc alchemist 13
It took him that long?
Stats?
Quote from: DeadUematsu;387268Stats?
The dragon went three-for-five at the plate and and one-for-one fielding with a baserunner kill at second.
The party sounds weak sause. But yeah, dragons are badass.
Quote from: The Shaman;387269The dragon went three-for-five at the plate and and one-for-one fielding with a baserunner kill at second.
If I could give reputation points for a post, I would for this one. :D
Quote from: The Shaman;387269The dragon went three-for-five at the plate and and one-for-one fielding with a baserunner kill at second.
This Dragon fight has been brought to you by Budweiser, the king of beers.
Coming up next on WGN, Haray Caray is doing play-by-play at this week's Orc battle againt the villagers.
- Ed C.
Firstly,thanks for the baseball references. I hate baseball but at least it's funny when you do it in the right context.
Second, the PCs aren't weak sauce. These are Pathfinder RPG classes. I also gave them the following to determine HP and stats: for HP: max at 1st, for each of the following die types: d4/d6, re-roll anything lower than a 3. (So mininum 3 HP.) d8/d10, re-roll anything lower than 5. d12m re-roll anything lower than 8. So while they didn't have max HP, they clearly had above average HP. For stat generation, I allowed dice determination (rolling for it), or point buy. For Point buy, it was 45. For dice rolling/stat rolling, 5d6, drop the lowest 2, re-roll all 1s and 2s.
The PCs weren't weak sauce so much as...they hadn't quite figured out their characters' ultimate destiny. Course they were just muddling through anyway... But yeah.
Anyway if you want stats for the dragon, I can point out the conversion I used.
Nothing wrong with this in my book.
Everyone avoids dragons in my settings. I don't think in the last decade that out of the 5 fights that included dragons that there hasn't been at least one (or more, normally) party deaths, and one was a TPK. That includes PCs who've run their characters for 15 years. Dragons are friggin' multi-ton, intelligent, huge engines of death.
Just be grateful that they weren't Gloranthan dragons as they are the size of large mountains.
When they are asleep most people think that they are mountains.
I'm not saying anything was wrong...I've just had encounters go a different route up to this point when facing off against a major NPC. (Example, I had to improve on Cindermaw the Clan eater (A purple worm that was imbued with the plane of fire) to be immortal. Because the PCs managed to KILL it. Thus they would have been unaccepted by the Shoanti and then have to figure out a way to get the info they needed some other way. (On the other hand, the Haveros' tentacles were still pretty challenging....so it worked on that level.) I was just worried a dragon without something more to it...would have died. As it stood, the dragon did lose some HP (over half of its 350 HP.) But it still came out the victor in most senses of the word.
@Nightfall: Go ahead and post the conversion and if you can, the PCs' stats. I'm curious about the setup of both sides.
This is the conversion I used with a few slight alterations:
I increased his HP to 350, increase the save DC on his negative energy breath weapon and frightful presence (since all the PCs were above 4 HD) to DC 28, increased his SR to 27, and gave him a few bonus ranks in Spellcraft. Otherwise no real whole sale changes. I also noted (but this never came up in the game) that he should have a caster level of 10 to cast 5th level spells. But as that wasn't something I felt needed fixing (just yet) didn't come up.
BELSHALLAM CR 14
XP 38,400
Old umbral dragon
NE Gargantuan dragon (extraplanar)
Init +4; Senses blindsense 60 ft., dragon senses; Perception +29
Aura frightful presence (240 ft., DC 26)
DEFENSE
AC 34, touch 6, flat-footed 34; (+28 natural, -4 size)
hp 250 (20d12+120)
Fort +18, Ref +12, Will +16
Immune ability damage, negative energy damage, death effects, energy drain, paralysis, sleep; Resist cold 20, fire 10, electricity 10; DR 10/magic; SR 25
OFFENSE
Speed 60 ft., fly 250 ft. (clumsy)
Melee bite +22 (4d6+15), 2 claws +22 (2d6+10), 2 wings +20 (2d6+5), tail slap +20 (2d8+15) or vital strike bite +22 (16d6+15)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 20 ft. (25 ft. with bite)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20; concentration +26)
At will – deeper darkness, vampiric touch
Spells (CL 9; concentration +15)
5th (4/day) dominate person
4th (6/day) enervation, stoneskin
3rd (7/day) dispel magic, displacement, haste
2nd (8/day)—acid arrow, heroism, hold person, silence
1st (8/day)—detect undead, grease, magic missile, shield, true strike
0 (at will)—bleed, create water, dancing lights, detect poison, detect magic, disrupt undead, message, ray of frost, read magic
Special Attacks breath weapon (60-ft. cone, DC 26, 16d8 negative energy), blinding breath, draining breath (60-ft. cone, DC 23, 8 Strength damage),
ghost bane, channel negative energy (9/day, DC 21, 5d6 damage), crush (DC 26, 4d6+15), tail sweep (DC 26, 2d8+15)
TACTICS
Morale Belshallam understands much of how the chained spirit and Scarwall function, and knows that if he perishes here, his soul will become bound
even more firmly to the region. As a result, the dragon becomes particularly craven if brought below 40 hit points, attempting to flee back to area 10 to
hide and heal. If already cornered here, Belshallam resorts to begging for mercy. Mithrodar’s influence prevents the dragon from openly joining forces
with the PCs or discussing the nature of how his spirit is anchored, but anyone who speaks for at least one minute with the dragon can attempt a DC 20 Sense Motive check to notice that some sort of magical compulsion is affecting the dragon. Belshallam’s only real bargaining chip is his treasure, which he offers to the PCs as a bribe if that will prevent them from killing him. If, on the other hand, the PCs make clear the fact that they are here to release the spirit anchor effect, he grows suddenly very still and quiet. Mithrodar’s control isn’t enough to force the dragon to attack, but it is enough to keep him from giving the PCs any clue as to how to release him. Belshallam’s sudden silence is the best he can do to encourage the PCs that they’re on the right track. If, in the end, the PCs decide that the dragon’s death is the only option, a cornered Belshallam does his best to kill the PCs before they kill him and consign his soul to eternal imprisonment in Scarwall.
STATISTICS
Str 31, Dex 10, Con 23, Int 18, Wis 19, Cha 22
Base Atk +20; CMB +34; CMD 44
Feats Alertness, Flyby Attack, Hover, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Initiative, Improved Vital Strike, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch, Vital Strike
Skills Appraise +27, Bluff +29, Diplomacy +29, Fly +9, Knowledge (Arcana) +27, Knowledge (Planes) +27, Linguistics +27, Perception +29, Sense
Motive +29, Stealth +11
Languages Common, Draconic, plus 24 more
SQ hide in plain sight
I also feel I should change only one of his feats as Alertness didn't do much for him.
I don't have their sheets or even a copy just yet. I do have a working 'revised' copy of the party cleric (that wasn't in the fight) and the party wizard (though I don't think he's been updated since the last time I ran him. That was 11th level. He should be closer to 14th.)
Maybe I'll get copies of character sheets come Sunday...just in case.