It appears that the metal ratings changed sometime this month on DriveThruRPG. They added a few new levels. Does anyone have insight as to how many sales it takes to get a medal? I didn't realize that DriveThru sold so many rpgs, I went to RPGNow for all my pdfs and print on demands.
Any guess?
I looked around, but couldn't find any solid numbers. All I saw was that the old numbers were smaller than you would expect(vague, I know), and that someone thinks there might be an algorithm that works by proportions, not set numbers(no evidence one way or the other).
The Adamantine list is super depressing, too. Exalted 3e made it, but Stars Without Number didn't? Lame! And a full 15 of the 33 products in that section are that Hero Kids stuff. I ain't never seen anyone talk about playing that, so who the hell is buying so much of it?
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1061870I looked around, but couldn't find any solid numbers. All I saw was that the old numbers were smaller than you would expect(vague, I know), and that someone thinks there might be an algorithm that works by proportions, not set numbers(no evidence one way or the other).
The Adamantine list is super depressing, too. Exalted 3e made it, but Stars Without Number didn't? Lame! And a full 15 of the 33 products in that section are that Hero Kids stuff. I ain't never seen anyone talk about playing that, so who the hell is buying so much of it?
Nobody buys porn either... those non-customers are probably more willing to talk about the porn they aren't buying than those games too. :D
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1061870I looked around, but couldn't find any solid numbers. All I saw was that the old numbers were smaller than you would expect(vague, I know), and that someone thinks there might be an algorithm that works by proportions, not set numbers(no evidence one way or the other).
The Adamantine list is super depressing, too. Exalted 3e made it, but Stars Without Number didn't? Lame! And a full 15 of the 33 products in that section are that Hero Kids stuff. I ain't never seen anyone talk about playing that, so who the hell is buying so much of it?
According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.
Half of the games in the list I haven't ever played.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061848It appears that the metal ratings changed sometime this month on DriveThruRPG. They added a few new levels. Does anyone have insight as to how many sales it takes to get a medal? I didn't realize that DriveThru sold so many rpgs, I went to RPGNow for all my pdfs and print on demands.
Any guess?
RPGNow is technically part of DriveThru since they merged back in the late 2000s. I only remember that because RoninArts pulled their products due to disagreements with the new policy. (Now they are only available at Paizo's online store.)
The weird thing is that they track sales separately, so their metal lists look completely different.
https://www.rpgnow.com/metal.php
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/metal.php
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061948According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.
Half of the games in the list I haven't ever played.
Chronicles of Darkness being in the top is really weird, because I was under the impression that
World of Darkness was vastly more popular.
The lesson I would take from this is that OneBookShelf is not a reliable source of market data. Especially because RPGNow and DriveThruRPG, which use the same database, have contradictory metal awards pages.
As far as reliable sources go (i.e. retailers, distributors, manufacturers), ICv2 has consistently placed D&D, Pathfinder, and Star Wars in the top five for the past three years (the only years I could find). I don't know if that includes PDF sales or only physical book sales. I assume that the fact that most physical bookstores went out of business in the past decade would force a move to the digital market.
However, WotC refuses to sell PDFs presumably due to irrational fears of piracy. Remember their infamous 2008 hissy fit when they pulled all their products from OneBookShelf? Then they had the audacity to backpedal but they refused to bring back most of their non-D&D catalog which ironically forces potential buyers to pirate anyway.
I tried searching for data on the tabletop RPG market, but the overall consensus seems to be that there isn't reliable public data. All we can really be sure of is that D&D has consistently dominated the market since ever and everything else is subject to intense fluctuation.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061948According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.
Zweihander probably gets in there in part by showing up more frequently than any other product in the Daily Deal offers.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1061950RPGNow is technically part of DriveThru since they merged back in the late 2000s. I only remember that because RoninArts pulled their products due to disagreements with the new policy. (Now they are only available at Paizo's online store.)
The weird thing is that they track sales separately, so their metal lists look completely different.
https://www.rpgnow.com/metal.php
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/metal.php
Chronicles of Darkness being in the top is really weird, because I was under the impression that World of Darkness was vastly more popular.
The lesson I would take from this is that OneBookShelf is not a reliable source of market data. Especially because RPGNow and DriveThruRPG, which use the same database, have contradictory metal awards pages.
As far as reliable sources go (i.e. retailers, distributors, manufacturers), ICv2 has consistently placed D&D, Pathfinder, and Star Wars in the top five for the past three years (the only years I could find). I don't know if that includes PDF sales or only physical book sales. I assume that the fact that most physical bookstores went out of business in the past decade would force a move to the digital market.
However, WotC refuses to sell PDFs presumably due to irrational fears of piracy. Remember their infamous 2008 hissy fit when they pulled all their products from OneBookShelf? Then they had the audacity to backpedal but they refused to bring back most of their non-D&D catalog which ironically forces potential buyers to pirate anyway.
I tried searching for data on the tabletop RPG market, but the overall consensus seems to be that there isn't reliable public data. All we can really be sure of is that D&D has consistently dominated the market since ever and everything else is subject to intense fluctuation.
I would guess their numbers don't match industry numbers because the larger games probably see the bulk of their sales through their own sites and the more traditional distribution networks (B&M shops, Amazon). Drivethru/ RPGNow probably skews heavily towards the smaller less well known games.
A lot of the classic TSR / WOTC games are currently available at Drivethru and presumably RPGNow as well (I use the DT side, so can't say for sure), Boothill, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, they even offer print on demand for most.
Looking at the ones at the top it makes one wonder just how much the system is being manipulated, again, and how many palms are being greased to get those numbers nudged just so?
I for one look forward to the bismuth metal award! :)
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061948According to the list, Zweihander is #1 of all time, followed by Mage the Awakening, Exalted and Blades in the Dark. That's cray-cray to think those are the three bestselling titles on Drive Thru RPG.
Half of the games in the list I haven't ever played.
Zweihander has been the deal of the day almost every other week. I suppose the ranking makes sense in light of that.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1061848It appears that the metal ratings changed sometime this month on DriveThruRPG. They added a few new levels. Does anyone have insight as to how many sales it takes to get a medal? I didn't realize that DriveThru sold so many rpgs, I went to RPGNow for all my pdfs and print on demands.
Any guess?
The metal awards have been:
Copper 51-100
Silver 101-250
Electrum 251-500
Gold 501-1000
Platinum 1001+
I'm not sure what Mithral and Adamantine work out to be but my guess would be that Platinum is now 1001-2500, Mithril is 2501-5000 and Adamantine is 5001+.
If I ran Drivethru the Metal ratings would be
Motorhead
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Deep Purple
Blue Oyster Cult
Black Sabbath
Iron Butterfly
:p
Quote from: Toadmaster;1062415If I ran Drivethru the Metal ratings would be
Motorhead
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Deep Purple
Blue Oyster Cult
Black Sabbath
Iron Butterfly
:p
I could look up which games' concerts I've been to. :D :D :D
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1061950Chronicles of Darkness being in the top is really weird, because I was under the impression that World of Darkness was vastly more popular.
Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness were the same thing up until Paradox bought the rights to White Wolf lock stock and barrel from CCP a few years back. Paradox/White Wolf only had them re-name the "New World of Darkness" to "Chronicles of Darkness" recently to avoid brand confusion...
Also remember, White Wolf as a company right now has only put out a single product... "Vampire the Masquerade 5th edition".... All Previous "World of Darkness" products including all of the 20th anniversary books have been put out by Onyx Path.
Quote from: Orphan81;1062576Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness were the same thing up until Paradox bought the rights to White Wolf lock stock and barrel from CCP a few years back. Paradox/White Wolf only had them re-name the "New World of Darkness" to "Chronicles of Darkness" recently to avoid brand confusion...
Also remember, White Wolf as a company right now has only put out a single product... "Vampire the Masquerade 5th edition".... All Previous "World of Darkness" products including all of the 20th anniversary books have been put out by Onyx Path.
I was under the impression that the classic world was more popular than the new world. Although the numbers for the metals suggests that the numbers are actually quite small in general. There are millions of people in the hobby and in the digital/POD era the most popular games have only sold a few thousand copies at most? Clearly the audience for these games must be very small.
Not that I am particularly interested since I perceive the whole X of Darkness as suffering from systemic problems with the rules and fluff that prevent me from consuming it. There are better indie games out there now.
Jebus, they give an award when something sells 51 copies?
Where does one even see these medals?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1062689I was under the impression that the classic world was more popular than the new world. Although the numbers for the metals suggests that the numbers are actually quite small in general. There are millions of people in the hobby and in the digital/POD era the most popular games have only sold a few thousand copies at most? Clearly the audience for these games must be very small.
Not that I am particularly interested since I perceive the whole X of Darkness as suffering from systemic problems with the rules and fluff that prevent me from consuming it. There are better indie games out there now.
Well remember, the Classic went out of Print back in 2003. There wasn't a new classic product until Vampire the Masquerade 20th anniversary edition in 2011, and that didn't even get sold on drive thru originally.
So Nwod now Chronicles has had a helluva head start.
There was only Nwod products on drive thru in that interim period before they began to migrate some of the old pdfs over.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1062704Where does one even see these medals?
*snip* Click here. (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/metal.php) That'll explain them in rough detail, but they don't give you exact numbers.
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1062397The metal awards have been:
Copper 51-100
Silver 101-250
Electrum 251-500
Gold 501-1000
Platinum 1001+
I'm not sure what Mithral and Adamantine work out to be but my guess would be that Platinum is now 1001-2500, Mithril is 2501-5000 and Adamantine is 5001+.
Hmm I dont think these are quite right, or Midlands would be gold, but it is showing electrum on DTRPG
Quote from: Psikerlord;1062798Hmm I dont think these are quite right, or Midlands would be gold, but it is showing electrum on DTRPG
The DTRPG people haven't given numbers, but they have said that it's not a flat doubling of the previous tier anymore. To go up a tier requires more, but . . . how much more is the question.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1062836The DTRPG people haven't given numbers, but they have said that it's not a flat doubling of the previous tier anymore. To go up a tier requires more, but . . . how much more is the question.
Yeah I thought I read something like that too
Quote from: Psikerlord;1062798Hmm I dont think these are quite right, or Midlands would be gold, but it is showing electrum on DTRPG
It's entirely possible that they made other changes of which I haven't been aware. I was under the impression that they just added the top two levels.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;1062836The DTRPG people haven't given numbers, but they have said that it's not a flat doubling of the previous tier anymore. To go up a tier requires more, but . . . how much more is the question.
Don't know if I'll get an answer or not but, upon reading your responses, I've put in a request for the actual numbers. I guess we'll see what I get as a response.
And here's the response:
Copper: 51-100 units sold
Silver: 101-250
Electrum: 251-500
Gold: 501-1000
Platinum: 1,001-2,500
Mithral: 2,501-5,000
Adamantine: 5,001 or more
Same. We just expanded it. :)
No extra requirements.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1062704Where does one even see these medals?
They are on each product's page which has earned one. So, if you look on a product's page on the top right, if the product has earned a medal it will be located there.
Also, as GeekEclectic pointed out, you can see the major ones here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/metal.php
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1062908And here's the response:
Copper: 51-100 units sold
Silver: 101-250
Electrum: 251-500
Gold: 501-1000
Platinum: 1,001-2,500
Mithral: 2,501-5,000
Adamantine: 5,001 or more
Same. We just expanded it. :)
No extra requirements.
"How do you make a small fortune in RPGs? Start with a medium fortune."
It's both sad and encouraging that RPGs will always be primarily the hobby projects of professionals in other industries.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1062914"How do you make a small fortune in RPGs? Start with a medium fortune."
It's both sad and encouraging that RPGs will always be primarily the hobby projects of professionals in other industries.
Looking at Zweihander they raised a lot of money on Kickstarter to pay for artwork and layout. It helps to know how to run a business to make a good rpg tho because at this point the Zweihander guy seems to be crushing it. They raised a lot on their new rpg Main Gauche as well.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1062395Zweihander has been the deal of the day almost every other week. I suppose the ranking makes sense in light of that.
Deal of the day is supposed to be a good way to generate sales (I've generally heard positive things about that feature). The challenge of it for most companies is it costs a lot of publisher points (something like 457 point presently on both RPGnow and Drivethru). That is a large amount. Most people either have to save up for a very long time to get to that point (not spending on banners and other features) or have a massive success out of the gate which can result in a large pool (not sure if 457 is feasible in a single month or not but the more you sell the more publisher points you get each month). You can also buy publisher points but they are 1 dollar per point. So presently deal of the day would cost a publisher $457 (the return probably wouldn't be worth it for most products I am guessing).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1063074Deal of the day is supposed to be a good way to generate sales (I've generally heard positive things about that feature). The challenge of it for most companies is it costs a lot of publisher points (something like 457 point presently on both RPGnow and Drivethru). That is a large amount. Most people either have to save up for a very long time to get to that point (not spending on banners and other features) or have a massive success out of the gate which can result in a large pool (not sure if 457 is feasible in a single month or not but the more you sell the more publisher points you get each month). You can also buy publisher points but they are 1 dollar per point. So presently deal of the day would cost a publisher $457 (the return probably wouldn't be worth it for most products I am guessing).
It costs a lot from what I understand. That is why I do not buy the bullshit that Zweihander somehow padded their sales b/c pub points are expensive and it requires a lot to be DOTD. Zweihander was like DOTD 14 times last year.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1063075It costs a lot from what I understand. That is why I do not buy the bullshit that Zweihander somehow padded their sales b/c pub points are expensive and it requires a lot to be DOTD. Zweihander was like DOTD 14 times last year.
I am going by current numbers. When I look at the Submit a Deal-of-the-Day page, it is 457 points to do so, and when I look at the publisher points to purchase page (which you can find by searching "Publisher Points"), it's 20 dollars for 20 points, 30 for 30.
I have no idea what Zweihander's numbers are. That I cannot speak to. It is impossible for me to even speculate on. All I can say is they either got the deal of the day because they sold enough that they had the publisher points to spend on it, or they bought enough publisher points to secure that many deals of the day (which would be quite expensive). In the case of Zweihander, they may be big enough that that sort of expense would be profitable (especially now that they have an Ennie). I think for most other publishers, spending money on publisher points for a deal of the day, would be ill-advised. I don't sell enough books to know how feasible it is to get that many publisher points through sales in that time. Smaller publishers are lucky to get 100 points in a month. I don't know how high the potential publisher points are in a single month.
Also keep in mind, publisher point expenses change day to day and month to month. For anything you can spend publisher points on, the cost fluctuates. I don't know what factors adjust the cost, but even stuff like banners don't really have a set value. That changes by the day and time you choose to do them.
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1062397The metal awards have been:
Copper 51-100
Silver 101-250
Electrum 251-500
Gold 501-1000
Platinum 1001+
I'm not sure what Mithral and Adamantine work out to be but my guess would be that Platinum is now 1001-2500, Mithril is 2501-5000 and Adamantine is 5001+.
These don't match with what my sales have been, unless sales of my games on RPGnow/DTRPG were actually a lot lower proportion of overall sales (along with lulu and Amazon) than I imagined.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1063074Deal of the day is supposed to be a good way to generate sales (I've generally heard positive things about that feature).
Good way to generate sales? Sure.
Profit, no. The deal of the day is usually offered at a big discount (hence, 'deal'). Between that and the fact that the company charges you 'points' to do it, you are almost guaranteed to lose money on it, or earn a pittance.
The deal of the day seems like such a bad deal, that when it was offered to DOM after RPGNow fucked up Lion & Dragon at it's peak sales, they offered us a 'free deal of the day' as compensation for the accidental-or-intentionally derailing of L&D, and we said no because it didn't seem like a prize at all.
Of course, buying into the deal of the day to make a lot of sales at hardly any money certainly follows the modus operandi of some publishers, who have gone out of their way from sheer narcissism to actually go into the red to make their games appear to be very popular. A desperate need to look successful, at the cost of being successful.
Finally, I suspect that all the "Metal rankings" are dubious. We know from the experience with L&D that RPGnow/DTRPG can apparently rewrite sales figures and restore rankings that were stripped on account of website error, so what's to stop them either padding the sales figures of some products, or stopping the sales figures of others?
To whit, L&D has been by far the most profitable RPG I ever wrote, and yet it has been stuck at "silver" ranking for a year now even though the monthly profits over that year have been quite impressive, by RPG standards. So what's happening there?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1063614Finally, I suspect that all the "Metal rankings" are dubious. We know from the experience with L&D that RPGnow/DTRPG can apparently rewrite sales figures and restore rankings that were stripped on account of website error, so what's to stop them either padding the sales figures of some products, or stopping the sales figures of others?
To whit, L&D has been by far the most profitable RPG I ever wrote, and yet it has been stuck at "silver" ranking for a year now even though the monthly profits over that year have been quite impressive, by RPG standards. So what's happening there?
My thoughts would be that it's one of four things:
1> Your sales are less than you think they are. As you stated in your earlier post, you thought it might be possible that the percentage of sales at DTRPG and RPGNow might be less than you thought. I suppose that's possible.
2> Keep in mind that if you sold 250 on DTRPG and another 250 on RPGNow (for a total of 500), then your product would be silver on DTRPG and silver on RPGNow. So, despite selling 500 copies in total, that product is only going to be at silver.
3> They've made an accounting error.
4> You've uncovered some proof that they are fudging the numbers against you.
My guess is that it is probably #2. That is something that frustrates me to no end as they are, for all intents and purposes, the same page and yet they continue this facade that they are not. Total sales is measured in how much you sell on both sites and you cannot find out how much of that total was sold on an individual site. It's truly annoying.
That being said, having dealt with them for almost eight years now, I would not be shocked at all to find out it was #3 or #4.
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;10636312> Keep in mind that if you sold 250 on DTRPG and another 250 on RPGNow (for a total of 500), then your product would be silver on DTRPG and silver on RPGNow. So, despite selling 500 copies in total, that product is only going to be at silver.
This strikes me as quite likely. I think it is one of the big flaws in the one book system. It also affects the top seller list when the book is first released I believe.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1063613Good way to generate sales? Sure.
Profit, no. The deal of the day is usually offered at a big discount (hence, 'deal'). Between that and the fact that the company charges you 'points' to do it, you are almost guaranteed to lose money on it, or earn a pittance.
The deal of the day seems like such a bad deal, that when it was offered to DOM after RPGNow fucked up Lion & Dragon at it's peak sales, they offered us a 'free deal of the day' as compensation for the accidental-or-intentionally derailing of L&D, and we said no because it didn't seem like a prize at all.
Of course, buying into the deal of the day to make a lot of sales at hardly any money certainly follows the modus operandi of some publishers, who have gone out of their way from sheer narcissism to actually go into the red to make their games appear to be very popular. A desperate need to look successful, at the cost of being successful.
I've never done a deal of the day myself (at least not that I recall--its possible I did one way back and don't remember, or received an offer ages ago like you one you mentioned and took it). I imagine though many of these things are different for people depending on what tier they reside in in the industry. For me they just cost too many publisher points. I'd probably only earn enough points right after releasing a big core book (and I am not sure putting it all into deal of the day is a good idea, when I could spread those points around to lots of different features and banners). But overall people aren't making huge amounts of money doing this. And I think its wise to be cautious spending things like publisher points on one feature like this.
Publisher Points are not something I would advise anyone to pay actual money for. Maybe in sufficient quantity, it creates more momentum and its worth it, but I doubt it based on my own experience. I've generally stuck to using my regular allotment of Publisher Points (which you get automatically each month based on your sales) for things like banner ads on the site. I've found those to be somewhat effective, but also the banner you put up and the product itself matter. Perhaps publishers that have more broad appeal may get different results through.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1063632This strikes me as quite likely. I think it is one of the big flaws in the one book system. It also affects the top seller list when the book is first released I believe.
Yeah, the top seller lists are also site dependent which, to me, is also quite annoying.
The "hottest" lists are generally crap these days. They have made a significant change to the "hottest" list that favors higher priced PDFs. In the old days, the formula for "hottest" was # of units sold / days available. Now the "hottest" product is determined by Gross sales in $ / days available. So it's no longer what's selling the most but what is making the most money.
So if Company X is selling a $50 PDF and Company Y is selling a $1 PDF, then 2 sales of Company X's product is equivalent to 100 sales of Company Y's product. I'm not sure how one justifies that Company X's product is "hotter" than Company Y's product when the former has only sold two copies and the latter has sold 100.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1063613Of course, buying into the deal of the day to make a lot of sales at hardly any money certainly follows the modus operandi of some publishers, who have gone out of their way from sheer narcissism to actually go into the red to make their games appear to be very popular. A desperate need to look successful, at the cost of being successful.
What publishers would you think would do that though? I thoguht Deal of the deal was profitable because you sell alot of pdfs.
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1063631My thoughts would be that it's one of four things:
1> Your sales are less than you think they are. As you stated in your earlier post, you thought it might be possible that the percentage of sales at DTRPG and RPGNow might be less than you thought. I suppose that's possible.
2> Keep in mind that if you sold 250 on DTRPG and another 250 on RPGNow (for a total of 500), then your product would be silver on DTRPG and silver on RPGNow. So, despite selling 500 copies in total, that product is only going to be at silver.
3> They've made an accounting error.
4> You've uncovered some proof that they are fudging the numbers against you.
My guess is that it is probably #2. That is something that frustrates me to no end as they are, for all intents and purposes, the same page and yet they continue this facade that they are not. Total sales is measured in how much you sell on both sites and you cannot find out how much of that total was sold on an individual site. It's truly annoying.
That being said, having dealt with them for almost eight years now, I would not be shocked at all to find out it was #3 or #4.
No. Being aware of this I've done ALL my publicity efforts on RPGnow. I have shared only the RPGnow links, whenever I'm promoting the book it's on RPGnow.
I can't fathom that the situation would be one of equal sales in spite of a completely one-sided promotion. Not in a product like this where word-of-mouth is usually the main way to sell it.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1063687What publishers would you think would do that though? I thoguht Deal of the deal was profitable because you sell alot of pdfs.
It's standard to sell at half-price or less. So yes, you're making a lot of sales, at half the profit per unit you would have before.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1063700No. Being aware of this I've done ALL my publicity efforts on RPGnow. I have shared only the RPGnow links, whenever I'm promoting the book it's on RPGnow.
I can't fathom that the situation would be one of equal sales in spite of a completely one-sided promotion. Not in a product like this where word-of-mouth is usually the main way to sell it.
I don't know. I do the same thing except I only promote DTRPG and not RPGNow. While a lot of my sales are at DTRPG, I still sell a lot on RPGNow and it does skew the metal awards (quite unnecessarily in my opinion).
However, if you're solidly sure that it's not #1 or 2 on my list, I'd say you need to contact them. Because if it's not #1 or #2, my next best guess is that it's an accounting error (#3) and it's something they can fix. If they start stonewalling you, then I'd say you'll know for sure that it is actually #4 and this is some attack with malice against you.
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1063722I don't know. I do the same thing except I only promote DTRPG and not RPGNow. While a lot of my sales are at DTRPG, I still sell a lot on RPGNow and it does skew the metal awards (quite unnecessarily in my opinion).
.
I base it on the book. The top lists and layout of each site is just different enough that some books benefit more from being on Drivethru, while others benefit more from being on RPGnow. I generally feel more at home on RPGnow though.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1063700No. Being aware of this I've done ALL my publicity efforts on RPGnow. I have shared only the RPGnow links, whenever I'm promoting the book it's on RPGnow.
I can't fathom that the situation would be one of equal sales in spite of a completely one-sided promotion. Not in a product like this where word-of-mouth is usually the main way to sell it.
OK. I was interested in the discussion, and may be able to enlighten people (publishers) as to individual's shopping habits (or at least mine).
As soon as I saw this post I had suspicions that I was one of your L&D customers that bought on DriveThru rather than RGNow, 'cos I've got a direct link on my browser to the former, and can't be bothered to have two links in my toolbar. I ran back through my emails and found that (i) I'd actually bought it from RPGNow (which actually surprised me as I rarely go there) and (ii) had got the character sheet from DriveThru (which was what I expected).
As you say having had their backend incorporate both sources into my one 'library' of purchases, I can't see why they have distinct ratings for individual platforms.
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1063631My thoughts would be that it's one of four things:
2> Keep in mind that if you sold 250 on DTRPG and another 250 on RPGNow (for a total of 500), then your product would be silver on DTRPG and silver on RPGNow. So, despite selling 500 copies in total, that product is only going to be at silver.
Yes this was my error with Midlands. Metal rankings on DTRPG and RPGNow are accounted for separately, but the default sales numbers report combines both. I didnt realise that until they expained it to me the other day
Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;1063722If they start stonewalling you, then I'd say you'll know for sure that it is actually #4 and this is some attack with malice against you.
Which would potentially be a breach of contract and possibly a tortious action, and probably worth consulting a lawyer on depending on the level of damages you could reasonably estimate based on sales after products hit a certain level.
Quote from: Psikerlord;1063792Yes this was my error with Midlands. Metal rankings on DTRPG and RPGNow are accounted for separately, but the default sales numbers report combines both. I didnt realise that until they expained it to me the other day
In my opinion, it's a definite problem. If you're going to separate the metal rankings by page, then they need to provide sales numbers for each page. This would eliminate a lot of the confusion.
OTOH, (and, in my opinion, the best option) they could just unite the sales reports and the metal rankings.
RPGnow was originally meant to be more for Small Press products. To some extent, it still is.
I always go through Drivethru, never RPGNow. It is the one saved in my favorites with my compiled wish list. Bundle of Holding also links direct to Drivethru.
I had no idea that it mattered to the publisher which one the sales came from I just assumed after they merged they kept both store fronts open as a convenience for customers.
It's hugely unfortunate for the hobby that they're essentially the only game in town.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1064133It's hugely unfortunate for the hobby that they're essentially the only game in town.
Buying directly is always an option. That's my preference.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1064194Buying directly is always an option. That's my preference.
Yes, that's great and strongly recommended, but it doesn't pick up casual buyers.
Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1063795Which would potentially be a breach of contract and possibly a tortious action, and probably worth consulting a lawyer on depending on the level of damages you could reasonably estimate based on sales after products hit a certain level.
This is the RPG industry. The money is never significant enough to involve a lawyer.
Count me as one who always buys through drivethrurpg.
Zwiehanders author has gone into detail on how he generates sales, why he does the deal of the day and why he thinks the discounts Ultimately results in more profit.
I guess we'll see, eventually.
I just got a newsletter saying that RPGNow is folding into DrivethruRPG. That among other things metal rankings will merge. That one way to fix the issue I suppose. Also RPGnow links will redirect to their DriveThruRPG equivalent.
This will occur in February 2019.
Quote from: estar;1065456I just got a newsletter saying that RPGNow is folding into DrivethruRPG. That among other things metal rankings will merge. That one way to fix the issue I suppose. Also RPGnow links will redirect to their DriveThruRPG equivalent.
This will occur in February 2019.
I'm surprised this wasn't done a long time ago. They'd already merged accounts during the initial merger. Due to mismanagement on my part I had to contact customer support to get multiple accounts I'd opened merged together.
Yes, the merging of rankings is probably a good thing. But there are potentially other issues. We're going to be talking about this on Sunday's episode of Inappropriate Characters.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1063700No. Being aware of this I've done ALL my publicity efforts on RPGnow. I have shared only the RPGnow links, whenever I'm promoting the book it's on RPGnow.
I can't fathom that the situation would be one of equal sales in spite of a completely one-sided promotion. Not in a product like this where word-of-mouth is usually the main way to sell it.
In the email they sent out to publishers announcing the merger, they said RPGNow accounted for less than 1/10th their sales. So it's quite likely that almost all your buyers who googled, or searched the store front instead of following a link, used DTRPG.
Quote from: Pat;1066020In the email they sent out to publishers announcing the merger, they said RPGNow accounted for less than 1/10th their sales. So it's quite likely that almost all your buyers who googled, or searched the store front instead of following a link, used DTRPG.
It's possible. I mean, L&D is rated as a Silver product on both sites; though again, given the significant profits it's shown ever since its release I'm still dubious as to how it could still be Silver rated, when other products I have with that same rating have had way less profit.
Hi there,
As of today Amazing Tales has earned all the medals. At every stage the sales figures lined up with the stated policies. I never promoted the RPG now URL but in the end maybe 200 out of 5200 sales came from there. So you can assume maybe 4% bleed between the sites.
Here's what I've learned about metals.
https://amazing-tales.net/2019/01/27/drivethru-rpg-metal-tiers/