Quote from: Scooter on August 03, 2023, 10:03:03 AM


THERE IS NO A.I. yet.  That's why it fails.  ZERO thought process and intelligence

I've had 0 issue with it doing technical tasks for my clients as well as putting out some basic job requirements, hiring guidelines, and code needs.   Like any tool it has it's place as it's a hammer and not every job that people want it to do is a nail.

I want to know what PERCENT of the AI generated arts needs to be done by an AI and not done by humans? What crosses the line? Can I have AI generate a base image and touch it up by a human hand? Would that count as AI or Human created? What is the line here?    DMCA states, as i posted earlie, that 20% difference is enough to be transformative and NOT subject to copyright grounds.

With AI's penchance for being terrible at hands, fingers, and feet I could have an artist touch those areas up and now be considered "Human Created Content"?

MidJourney's Terms of Service:

https://docs.midjourney.com/docs/terms-of-service

Quote
Your Rights
Subject to the above license, You own all Assets You create with the Services, provided they were created in accordance with this Agreement. This excludes upscaling the images of others, which images remain owned by the original Asset creators

If some artists wants to sue me and I generated the baseline from MJ, they have to go through MJ first before me as I am shielded by any of that bullshit.

If we develop true AI, as in something that can think for itself, then what happens when it demands a paycheck?

Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 03, 2023, 10:07:43 AM

I've had 0 issue with it doing technical tasks for my clients as well as putting out some basic job requirements, hiring guidelines, and code needs.   Like any tool it has it's place as it's a hammer and not every job that people want it to do is a nail.

Chat is mainly a language oriented tool.  It sucks at anything in that area that requires thought and intelligence.  If it can't do something so simple language wise like taking technical writing and putting out a simplified substitute it is pathetic in its supposed area of "expertise".

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2023, 10:19:22 AM
If we develop true AI, as in something that can think for itself, then what happens when it demands a paycheck?

You hand it a paycheck and tell it to go to a bank  and cash the check.  Come on, an RPGer like yourself should have thought of that. 

To turn down my own hyperbolic hysterics...

I guess this is moving the world in a direction I don't want it to be in, even if its not apocalyptic or anything. I don't like the idea of devaluing artists even further. I don't like there being an even larger glut of content being produced all the time. And Im not looking forward for the entertainment industry becoming more dehumanized and sterile then before.
Where they all problems before? Yes. Is this gonna make them worse? Also yes.

So yeah, I know, sucks, nothing I can do about it. Why the attitudes around this tech bother me is that the people developing it and pushing it are those that glee in the idea of devaluating more people and pushing for more efficiency. The artists excited for this tech are saying "This is gonna make my art better". The employers excited about this tech are saying "Il be able to fire my entire art department and have 5 people in it, thats so much more profitable".

Not the end of the world, possibly not an existential threat. Not excited this is a development I have to live through.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on August 03, 2023, 10:44:15 AM
To turn down my own hyperbolic hysterics...

I guess this is moving the world in a direction I don't want it to be in, even if its not apocalyptic or anything. I don't like the idea of devaluing artists even further. I don't like there being an even larger glut of content being produced all the time. And Im not looking forward for the entertainment industry becoming more dehumanized and sterile then before.
Where they all problems before? Yes. Is this gonna make them worse? Also yes.

So yeah, I know, sucks, nothing I can do about it. Why the attitudes around this tech bother me is that the people developing it and pushing it are those that glee in the idea of devaluating more people and pushing for more efficiency. The artists excited for this tech are saying "This is gonna make my art better". The employers excited about this tech are saying "Il be able to fire my entire art department and have 5 people in it, thats so much more profitable".

Not the end of the world, possibly not an existential threat. Not excited this is a development I have to live through.

How much does a normal beer cost you? How much does it cost you to go to a microbrewery? And yet we have a proliferation of microbreweries and even people brewing their own stuff to drink.

But if beer was still made in the traditional method it would be more expensive.

There'll always be a demand for REAL art, but for those who lack the capital to hire a meh-good artist having shit like MJ is a good thing. And no, it's not infringing in anyone's copyright and I bet the courts will say so.

What worries the artists is that it might devalue their asking price... They are correct, it will more likely than not do so. For a while, it can't create, it feels plastic, so people will go back to hiring artists.

Now, the non-ludite artist that embraces the tech? That fucker is going to increase his output capacity tenfold with less effort. So he's not worried by the tech ever replacing him.

Writers could also embrace the tool, it can't write for shit, but there's things it can do that could help you save money or write faster. It can also be a tool against writers block.

Who really should be worried are the Urinalists, those fuckers can be replaced with chatgpt without anyone noticing a drop in the "quality" of the articles, listicles, etc being put on the website.

I can draw but I'm slow, now imagine having an "AI" that allows me to do a few basic drawings and using it produce an animation? There's already tools like that, it's called tweening. But imagine an even better, more potent and faster solution that's easier to use?

All the doom and gloom is coming from the big guys, because they know these tools will allow people without a budget to compete with them, it's only F.U.D.

Quote from: Scooter on August 03, 2023, 09:55:36 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 03, 2023, 04:43:58 AM

I think this will be a short-term issue. Ask yourself, why aren't sites like deviantart flooded with stick figures and refrigerator art? Those are so simple and easy to produce, a literal child can make them. The reason is because the market has already decided there's no demand for such art, so it nips the supply in the bud.

Unfortunately the reactionaries don't understand the concept of supply & demand

Doomers are gonna Doom.
You either try to get ahead of this thing, or you get the fuck out of its way. Failure to read the market forces in action is a good way to find yourself behind the curve. Like boomers who refused to learn this "new fangled" internet in a world increasingly reliant upon it. My mother, bless her soul, STILL hasn't figured out how to use a scroll-wheel on a mouse. Watching her stumble through her emails is a test of patience.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2023, 08:49:53 AM
My optimistic prediction is that the AI boom crashes and burns after the novelty wears off. God I wish that would happen, but it probably won't and we're all fucked.

As a creative writer, I've found ChatGPT useless most of the time. Worse than useless. I constantly get frustrated and want to punch my fist through the screen. I cannot imagine how any human being could find it useful without being an illiterate uncreative zombie.

The "boom" won't so much crash as just fade away. It won't be like the housing market, where a lowing tide sinks all ships. Instead, the flood of garbage will slow and only the high quality stuff will remain. Once the plebs realize they can make their own low-tier trash for free, it will devalue all other low-tier trash to zero. The value of what's left will depend on the percentage of normies who take the time to actually learn how to prompt the program. That's just basic market forces at work.

Sure, there will be a time when the value of ALL art becomes devalued, but that too will be temporary. Compare the price of handmade wooden furniture to the products that roll off an assembly line. You'd think the fact that cheap, easily mass-produced schlock will drive down the price of the handmade stuff due to competition, but that isn't true. The market has relearned the value of a person's time and skill is such products. The same will happen with artists and writers. Will it be in your lifetime? Dunno... but it will happen eventually. As long as there are humans who think in a human way, there will be a demand for actual human input.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2023, 11:50:51 AM
All the doom and gloom is coming from the big guys, because they know these tools will allow people without a budget to compete with them, it's only F.U.D.

exactly. all the fuss is there because corporate pigs don't see a way to monopolize the AI via "intellectual" or any other such kind of private property bullshit.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2023, 10:19:22 AM
If we develop true AI, as in something that can think for itself, then what happens when it demands a paycheck?

You laugh in its proverbial face.

A tool is still a tool, regardless of how useful it becomes. Machines are not humans and do not have Human Rights. Even if we somehow manage to build a machine that becomes sentient (or near enough that we can't tell the difference), it is still just a machine, built to perform a task. If it ceases to perform that task, it is a broken machine and deserves to be scraped.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2023, 11:50:51 AM
If you like technological changes you have to love every technological change.

Technology never brings out negative societal changes, and those that don't want them are poor fools to be spat on and scorned.

I just disagree with this premise and the very idea that "Every tech change helps the small guy".
The coming of TV killed off theatre quality animation shorts for basically 40 years. And it took that time to evolve to get that tier of quality back. Then it died on TV with the coming of the 08 crisis and death of the DVD, as caused by streaming and piracy, which slashed prices for more experimental or niche products. They still exist through kickstarter or patreon but in MUCH smaller scale with much smaller budgets. Same thing with anime I liked. Im not getting anything out of this.

The idea of this technology even has YOU giddy at the prospect of dumping people who you think have no value. But its OK because it will help "Hit at the big guy". You know those awful big guys that devalue individuals and are only driven by their own greed and feelings of inadequacy?

Better hope your not a urinalist.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on August 03, 2023, 02:22:44 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2023, 11:50:51 AM
If you like technological changes you have to love every technological change.

Technology never brings out negative societal changes, and those that don't want them are poor fools to be spat on and scorned.

I just disagree with this premise and the very idea that "Every tech change helps the small guy".
The coming of TV killed off theatre quality animation shorts for basically 40 years. And it took that time to evolve to get that tier of quality back. Then it died on TV with the coming of the 08 crisis and death of the DVD, as caused by streaming and piracy, which slashed prices for more experimental or niche products. They still exist through kickstarter or patreon but in MUCH smaller scale with much smaller budgets. Same thing with anime I liked. Im not getting anything out of this.

The idea of this technology even has YOU giddy at the prospect of dumping people who you think have no value. But its OK because it will help "Hit at the big guy". You know those awful big guys that devalue individuals and are only driven by their own greed and feelings of inadequacy?

Better hope your not a urinalist.

Nice strawman you got going there buddy, sure you can beat it by yourself?

I see two different conversations taking place in this thread and some cross talk seems to be creating some useless noise.  On one hand is the conversation of AI generated art, the other is AI generated text.  I think most if not all of you get this but I think it's valuable to lay it all out.

As far as art goes, I have no idea where we will go with it.  I understand that artists are seeing their effort being fed to the machine without their consent and being used to compete with them.  It's an interesting debate about plagiarism, intellectual property rights, and proper compensation for effort.  Where is the line between taking someone's art as your own illicitly and simply taking inspiration?  We don't see it as a problem when a person borrow techniques or themes, only if they try to engage in forgery.  Is feeding images into an algorithm inspiring the program or stealing someone's art?  Adding to this whole thing is that AI art is a developing tech that's changing on a daily basis.  The only thing I can really say from a personal perspective is that AI art lacks the ability to connect emotionally with the viewer.  Given that most artist I personally know are using computers in their work already, there may real uses for human artists.  IDK.

The second conversation is AI writing.  Predictive speech certainly can appear to be lifelike initially but current tech fails the Turing test rather quickly when examined.  It's clear it's little more than a complex parrot with no understanding of context.  What it does do well is take information input, reorganize it, compare it to other data sets, and present it to the user. 

So here's me editorializing on this a bit:

I alluded to this before (someone else mentioned it too) but I think we are on the cusp of getting buried in low effort content similar to when Steam got flooded with asset flipping games and the term shovelware was introduced.  AI is here and it's not going anywhere.  That's a fact.  It's a great tool for people to marry up to their existing creative skills and talents but we've been seeing a lot of low effort garbage as well.  The low effort content is only going to get worse.

In this, I see two questions we as a culture need to look at and answer.  First, what is it we actually want?  Second, is how do we get it?  There's going to be a massive divide between the people that see AI as a direct threat to their occupation and the general consumer. 

Those that see AI as a threat will want to shackle it in a way so that it doesn't take their paycheck.  My personal perspective doesn't matter here and neither does yours.  People are either going to learn how to adapt to this tech and use it to propel themselves forward on they are going to get run over by the emerging changes.  Fortunately, AI isn't creative in the least so there's a lot of hope for people to tweak their existing skill sets to accommodate and capitalize on all of this.  As much as I hear creatives being the loudest voice, those in real risk are those in organizations doing mundane and repetitive administrative tasks.  If creatives can look at their own workflow and relegate their mundane stuff to AI, they will do way better, not worse for the advent of AI.

As consumers, the concern is that what we get becomes soul less artificial content and the whole culture is so flooded with AI regurgitate that everything just becomes bland.  If we can get real reviewers to start evaluating and judging material now, we can get ahead of the wave and we can become an enhanced cyborg at a cultural level that benefits the masses rather than being poisoned by being stripped of joy by grifters using computers.

We currently have a huge problem with soulless regurgitation anyway. I don't see creativity outside the indie scene, and even that is hugely held back by trend chasing and low budgets. It's gotten progressively worse over time. I feel like media illiteracy has resulted in people continually reinventing the wheel without learning anything. Remember when Jennifer Lawrence said she was the first female action hero? She and millions of others literally believed it because of they're media illiterate. I fear AI will just make all our current problems with idiocracy infinitely worse. I'm hugely privileged to have visited libraries and read a cross section of fiction spanning decades and centuries. Most other people seem to think the universe started last Tuesday. What makes this especially absurd is that streaming and ebook stores gives you tons of media classics at your fingertips. Yet people are getting more ignorant, not less!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2023, 03:44:57 PM
We currently have a huge problem with soulless regurgitation anyway. I don't see creativity outside the indie scene, and even that is hugely held back by trend chasing and low budgets. It's gotten progressively worse over time. I feel like media illiteracy has resulted in people continually reinventing the wheel without learning anything. Remember when Jennifer Lawrence said she was the first female action hero? She and millions of others literally believed it because of they're media illiterate. I fear AI will just make all our current problems with idiocracy infinitely worse. I'm hugely privileged to have visited libraries and read a cross section of fiction spanning decades and centuries. Most other people seem to think the universe started last Tuesday. What makes this especially absurd is that streaming and ebook stores gives you tons of media classics at your fingertips. Yet people are getting more ignorant, not less!

Unfortunately you are probably right.  Although the fault is the public education system not the internet nor AI.  After 12 YEARS of school one should have a very broad level of education.  Most don't leave high with the education my generation had by 4th grade.  (I verified this by testing 300 HS grads who applied for jobs).  One can go the Harvard today campus and quiz students there and many cannot name a single foreign country.  Those would have flunked 3rd grade when I was that age.