Quote from: Chris24601 on August 02, 2023, 05:05:34 PM
That said, I am not in favor of banning AI, just requiring a label for AI generated content so those who care about supporting real talent can put our money in the hands of the individuals we prefer to support.

Typical leftist flawed idea.  "Requiring" as in get the state to go after people doing something you don't like is a typical criminal reaction.

How 'bout the "real talent" labeling their own stuff? 

Quote from: BadApple on August 02, 2023, 09:38:56 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 02, 2023, 07:46:56 AM
How many of Michael Brown's adventures have you bought? What sample size are you basing this opinion on?

How many have I bought, or how many have I read?  In this context I think reading them is more important than owning them.  I would say I've gone through probably 40 of his adventures trying to stir the cranium juices for session prep before I realized he's not really offering me anything.  Essentially, he's writing the back cover of adventure modules and expecting the GM to actually create the adventure. 

I own a few of his products, a handful of adventures and some of his other supplements.  This includes two of his alternate settings for Cepheus Engine.  Yeah... Just low effort stuff...

This could easily lead to me ranting on why I think a digital lending library is a good idea.  I will always buy the books I think are worth it but don't try to scam me.

I'm asking because while a lot of his adventures are pretty bare bones, he has gone into detail on animals, NPCs, and maps for quite a few of them. Many prefer just a skeleton of an adventure so that it is easier for the GM to customize to his player group. Obviously, YMMV.

Many of the points and responses I wanted to make have already been made, so I'll just summarize:

A.I. (or whatever pedantic term you want to use) is a tool. Nothing more. Will it threaten established industries and occupations? Or course. But that isn't something that can be stopped without MAJOR regulatory oversight across pretty much every facet of people's lives. An artist might get scared because some asshole in his basement can pump out copious amount of cheap images, but I'd be more terrified of the Purity Police looking over everyone's shoulder making sure they don't use the "forbidden technology."

AI itself is not the threat. It's the ones who want to control it who are.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on August 02, 2023, 07:08:15 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on August 02, 2023, 04:53:08 PM
It may be that we need to oppose AI for existential reasons, but it won't be artists and writers who wage the Butlerian Jihad.

And yet, they are. https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/16/23557098/generative-ai-art-copyright-legal-lawsuit-stable-diffusion-midjourney-deviantart

That lawsuit looks more like, "We want gives," than an actual effort to halt or rein in AI.

Watching some people here trying to stop A.I. by throwing their wooden sandals at it, is a mixture of funny and depressing.

The technology is loose, it is massively useful, and it will become ubiquitous. Morals don't come in to it, it's simply a stone cold fact. The only question is not will A.I. change the world (for better or worse) but whether the Corps will control them, or the plebs will have unfettered access.

Quote from: Grognard GM on August 02, 2023, 11:24:12 PM
Watching some people here trying to stop A.I. by throwing their wooden sandals at it, is a mixture of funny and depressing.

The technology is loose, it is massively useful, and it will become ubiquitous. Morals don't come in to it, it's simply a stone cold fact. The only question is not will A.I. change the world (for better or worse) but whether the Corps will control them, or the plebs will have unfettered access.

I see it as a tool like Adobe Photoshop.  In the hands of professional photographers, it made their lives better and ultimately bettered the products their customers received.  It also lead to some of the most god-awful CGI in B movies. 

I believe that properly applied, AI in careful hands can lead to a new golden age of content.  Creatives working with computers to reduce tedium and increase workflow is a great promise of the future.

My only real concern is that we will be flooded by so much bad crap we can't find the good stuff.  We already have to be careful and parse RPG content carefully because there's so little dependable info on a product before we buy it.

Quote from: Corolinth on August 02, 2023, 10:37:29 PM
That lawsuit looks more like, "We want gives," than an actual effort to halt or rein in AI.

I personally know the artists involved for years. I assure you they are quite sincere in ending AI using copyright work in their data.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 01, 2023, 11:38:47 AM
What I want to know is how the fuck are they going to KNOW that something was written by AI?

/thread

it's nothing by virtue signaling.

AI will damn all human creative endeavors in a very short time frame.

The SAG/WGA strike in Hollyweird is the last gurgling cry. Musicians are next on the chopping block. Then directors and editors.

Good luck everybody.

Quote from: BadApple on August 03, 2023, 12:04:00 AM
My only real concern is that we will be flooded by so much bad crap we can't find the good stuff.  We already have to be careful and parse RPG content carefully because there's so little dependable info on a product before we buy it.

I think this will be a short-term issue. Ask yourself, why aren't sites like deviantart flooded with stick figures and refrigerator art? Those are so simple and easy to produce, a literal child can make them. The reason is because the market has already decided there's no demand for such art, so it nips the supply in the bud.

The same will happen with AI art and stories. The only reason they are so prevelent today is because they are a novelty. Like all novelties, it will wear off. Most normies don't understand the tech yet, but once they figure out they can make their own shitty art for free, the swathes of shitty art for sale will dry up. And what's left will be the mid-to-high quality stuff that requires some degree of effort to achieve.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on August 03, 2023, 12:17:35 AM

Quote from: Corolinth on August 02, 2023, 10:37:29 PM
That lawsuit looks more like, "We want gives," than an actual effort to halt or rein in AI.

I personally know the artists involved for years. I assure you they are quite sincere in ending AI using copyright work in their data.

Allow me to speak as both a (former) book publisher and editor and someone who has been toying around with AI for some time; reducing the data-set you train AIs from is actually one of the most dangerous things you can do because it encourages developers to create higher efficiency training processes.

Stable Diffusion used to need an A100 GPU with about 40 GB of VRAM. However, once it got down to about 23 GB and people could use RTX 3090s and 4090s to train models, there was an explosion of development towards using less VRAM to train and currently you can train with less than 10 GB of VRAM. There's really no point in going further because GPUs with less than 10 GB of VRAM aren't powerful enough to train models in reasonable timeframes.

In the same way, once you want your information removed from the training data set, developers will start to focus on more efficiently utilizing the public domain data no one doubts that they have the right to train AIs with. Removing data from the training set sounds like it makes life harder for AI development, but when you consider that AI development is currently a whole lot of brute force computation, it should become clear that it actually has the reverse effect in the long run; brute force is no longer viable, therefore developers will start using more intelligent training processes.

I am not saying that AI will suddenly become human-level, but I think that most artists and authors interested in pulling their work are making a silent ceteris paribus assumption which is dead wrong.

Quote from: Effete on August 03, 2023, 04:43:58 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 03, 2023, 12:04:00 AM
My only real concern is that we will be flooded by so much bad crap we can't find the good stuff.  We already have to be careful and parse RPG content carefully because there's so little dependable info on a product before we buy it.

I think this will be a short-term issue. Ask yourself, why aren't sites like deviantart flooded with stick figures and refrigerator art? Those are so simple and easy to produce, a literal child can make them. The reason is because the market has already decided there's no demand for such art, so it nips the supply in the bud.

The same will happen with AI art and stories. The only reason they are so prevelent today is because they are a novelty. Like all novelties, it will wear off. Most normies don't understand the tech yet, but once they figure out they can make their own shitty art for free, the swathes of shitty art for sale will dry up. And what's left will be the mid-to-high quality stuff that requires some degree of effort to achieve.

My optimistic prediction is that the AI boom crashes and burns after the novelty wears off. God I wish that would happen, but it probably won't and we're all fucked.

As a creative writer, I've found ChatGPT useless most of the time. Worse than useless. I constantly get frustrated and want to punch my fist through the screen. I cannot imagine how any human being could find it useful without being an illiterate uncreative zombie.

Quote from: Spinachcat on August 03, 2023, 04:22:50 AM
AI will damn all human creative endeavors in a very short time frame.

Or, alternatively, force it back to the small-scale, local level.

"Welp, the internet is now full of 10,000-years-worth of AI shit content. Time to switch off the screen and go listen to my buddy Josh playing the guitar while watching his wife sculpt something out of clay next to the river. Hmm, I wonder what Rick has prepared for us in his homebrew RPG campaign this weekend?"

Quote from: Effete on August 03, 2023, 04:43:58 AM

I think this will be a short-term issue. Ask yourself, why aren't sites like deviantart flooded with stick figures and refrigerator art? Those are so simple and easy to produce, a literal child can make them. The reason is because the market has already decided there's no demand for such art, so it nips the supply in the bud.

Unfortunately the reactionaries don't understand the concept of supply & demand

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2023, 08:49:53 AM

As a creative writer, I've found ChatGPT useless most of the time. Worse than useless. I constantly get frustrated and want to punch my fist through the screen. I cannot imagine how any human being could find it useful without being an illiterate uncreative zombie.

Yes, as someone who has tried to use it to help client write articles to give to media, it is fairly useless creating new material.  Even altering existing content is done poorly.  E.g.  CISA recently asked us to turn one of our security clients proposals into layman's language for some key Senators.  I dropped it into Chat and told it what to do.  Took about 10 tries to produce garbage.  I ended up doing it myself in a fraction of the time it took to get garbage.   

THERE IS NO A.I. yet.  That's why it fails.  ZERO thought process and intelligence