Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 20, 2023, 12:34:54 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:26:07 PM
As for BGE they are making great efforts to restore some small level of fairness to the system. That is more important to me than whatever it is that drive sheep to follow the herd to DTRPG. Be part of the problem if you want.

Same here...The only way BGE can thrive is if we start making an effort to put material up there. As for DT I'm going to do my best to buy from BGE where possible or go directly to the publisher. I've backed a load of kickstarters so these will mostly be filled by DT. So I'm stuck with those.

From what I understand, BGE is planning to upgrade its website and services, and maybe then it will become more effective. I'm not a publisher, but not a single publisher of my products that I've mentioned this to has decided to jump on the bandwagon at this time, they just don't think that in BGE's current state it would be worth it. But like I said, that can still change in the future, if they make some upgrades.

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2023, 05:45:45 PM
there is NO question in my mind that this game "Men" was written not as an RPG but as a POLITICAL MESSAGE. And that it's intent was to be offensive.
And that Red Room published it to try to court controversy. And that when DTRPG banned it, they did literally engage in "hostile marketing". 

Shit, when DTRPG came up with the term I felt it was something of an invention. And more, I criticized it as dangerous, because it suggests that publicly complaining in any way about your RPG being suspended counts as "hostile marketing".
But here, the Red Room did EXACTLY what they were saying 'hostile marketers' would do. Before the game was banned they were tweeting stuff along the lines of "we'll see how long it takes before DTRPG bans this one!", and once the game was banned they were using that to sell their other products and promote BGE.

Again, you can argue about how the policy could be abused or taken too far so that any criticism of DTRPG is cause for suspension, and you can argue that the general policy of suspending products is unfair because DTRPG allows all sorts of atrocious content from the left but suspends products for atrocious content from the right.

But you can't actually deny that the Red Room knew exactly what the fuck it was doing here, and was doing exactly what DTRPG had made the hostile marketing policy, and which I will now admit I was wrong to previously wave off as a fictitious boogeyman.

And this bugs me. Why? Because now the next time some product is suspended for bad reasons, DTRPG will be able to claim the "hostile marketing" defense and the fact that some people were engaging in hostile marketing will muddy the water.

Yeah, after looking into it I feel fucking played. It's just another event which proves the opposition's point, and if this keeps happening then maybe they were right all along.

Quote from: Naburimannu on February 20, 2023, 05:02:42 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 19, 2023, 08:39:01 AM
The game has 3 central design tenets:

1) Virtue signal.
2) Piss off "the right people."
3) Make virtually no money, but still win awards.

It takes a couple of seconds of Googling to bring up counter-evidence: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1448774890266390533; then, a couple of minutes of figuring out Twitter search syntax to get more: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1463599029212880901

According to the publisher, Thirsty Sword Lesbians sold over 13k copies in the first 3-6 months after the kickstarter, which is grossing 195k+; grossing over $500k in the first year including the second $100k Kickstarter.

Another $40k+ gross in first quarter 2022? https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1516871792140308480

That's not "virtual no money".

Some have accepted the mantra of "get woke go broke" so fervently that they're in complete denial when virtue signaling and pissing off the 'right' people makes bank, even when they profit from the same kind of outrage marketing. And anyone saying this isn't a lot of sales/money when it comes to RPGs is just straightlining copium.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 18, 2023, 11:57:44 AM
Well after five days of reviewing my little adventure about fighting strange occult bad guys during WW II, I got an answer from the assholes at DTRPG (I paraphrase):

Everything is cool with the adventure, although they suggested I change the cover which had a graphic image of the Black Sun (from the 19th Century not related to Nazis) containing a skull in the center with runes on it (almost like something you would see on a Ukrainian Army uniform - egad where are my pearls). I already did that so its moot.

However, now they are accusing me of violating the 'exclusivity' agreement by posting other products elsewhere; products that were never posted on DTRPG. They insist I pull everything off of every other website until the exclusivity period ends on July 21, 2023.

So I am just going to ignore them. They have no right to demand that. If they want to ban me then so be it. They are probably going to do so whatever I do. I suppose I should be flattered that they have put so much effort into screwing with me. I never thought I was worth the trouble! I just wish I had done something worthy of being banned!!!! I suspect it has nothing to do with me and more to do with ITCHIO and BGE becoming more of a threat (I have been posting all my new stuff on those two websites).

Maybe there is still time to produce something incredibly offensive and posting it on DTRPG before they ban me? Any suggestions?

Dude, just take the win.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 18, 2023, 01:06:20 PM
I have to say, if you're asking for suggestions, that DTRPG seems willing to be more or less reasonable in this particular case, especially if the book has been cleared (and, although I see no reason to object to the cover, you said you took care of that already).

It will never be enough for some folks, and they're no less radical than the ideologues they oppose.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 17, 2023, 01:01:48 PM
I just had another thought... Is Red Room doing a Kanye West??? Being so provocative that they cut him? Maybe I should do something like that. I have 4 and a half months before my exclusivity clause is dead, and until then they have me throttled down to zero. HMMMMM?

This sort of pushing boundaries out of spite is exactly why #DTRPG has hostile marketing clauses in the first place, and you'd be the second person to justify it. As for pulling a Ye, you don't have anywhere near the clout required to be 'successful' at it.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on February 21, 2023, 04:17:01 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2023, 05:45:45 PM
there is NO question in my mind that this game "Men" was written not as an RPG but as a POLITICAL MESSAGE. And that it's intent was to be offensive.
And that Red Room published it to try to court controversy. And that when DTRPG banned it, they did literally engage in "hostile marketing". 

Shit, when DTRPG came up with the term I felt it was something of an invention. And more, I criticized it as dangerous, because it suggests that publicly complaining in any way about your RPG being suspended counts as "hostile marketing".
But here, the Red Room did EXACTLY what they were saying 'hostile marketers' would do. Before the game was banned they were tweeting stuff along the lines of "we'll see how long it takes before DTRPG bans this one!", and once the game was banned they were using that to sell their other products and promote BGE.

Again, you can argue about how the policy could be abused or taken too far so that any criticism of DTRPG is cause for suspension, and you can argue that the general policy of suspending products is unfair because DTRPG allows all sorts of atrocious content from the left but suspends products for atrocious content from the right.

But you can't actually deny that the Red Room knew exactly what the fuck it was doing here, and was doing exactly what DTRPG had made the hostile marketing policy, and which I will now admit I was wrong to previously wave off as a fictitious boogeyman.

And this bugs me. Why? Because now the next time some product is suspended for bad reasons, DTRPG will be able to claim the "hostile marketing" defense and the fact that some people were engaging in hostile marketing will muddy the water.

Yeah, after looking into it I feel fucking played. It's just another event which proves the opposition's point, and if this keeps happening then maybe they were right all along.

Totally, it's not like Thirsty Sword Lesbians is the exact same but on the opposite way. AND it's allowed to exist and sell.

If only those evul right wingers would let us trample them nothing of the rules made to trample them would be neccessary...

You, Pundit, and everyone else taking this position are the sort that goes: "I'm for free speech but".

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 21, 2023, 04:49:56 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on February 21, 2023, 04:17:01 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2023, 05:45:45 PM
there is NO question in my mind that this game "Men" was written not as an RPG but as a POLITICAL MESSAGE. And that it's intent was to be offensive.
And that Red Room published it to try to court controversy. And that when DTRPG banned it, they did literally engage in "hostile marketing". 

Shit, when DTRPG came up with the term I felt it was something of an invention. And more, I criticized it as dangerous, because it suggests that publicly complaining in any way about your RPG being suspended counts as "hostile marketing".
But here, the Red Room did EXACTLY what they were saying 'hostile marketers' would do. Before the game was banned they were tweeting stuff along the lines of "we'll see how long it takes before DTRPG bans this one!", and once the game was banned they were using that to sell their other products and promote BGE.

Again, you can argue about how the policy could be abused or taken too far so that any criticism of DTRPG is cause for suspension, and you can argue that the general policy of suspending products is unfair because DTRPG allows all sorts of atrocious content from the left but suspends products for atrocious content from the right.

But you can't actually deny that the Red Room knew exactly what the fuck it was doing here, and was doing exactly what DTRPG had made the hostile marketing policy, and which I will now admit I was wrong to previously wave off as a fictitious boogeyman.

And this bugs me. Why? Because now the next time some product is suspended for bad reasons, DTRPG will be able to claim the "hostile marketing" defense and the fact that some people were engaging in hostile marketing will muddy the water.

Yeah, after looking into it I feel fucking played. It's just another event which proves the opposition's point, and if this keeps happening then maybe they were right all along.

Totally, it's not like Thirsty Sword Lesbians is the exact same but on the opposite way. AND it's allowed to exist and sell.

If only those evul right wingers would let us trample them nothing of the rules made to trample them would be neccessary...

You, Pundit, and everyone else taking this position are the sort that goes: "I'm for free speech but".

There is always that big... BUTT!!! Oh well. whatever.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 21, 2023, 04:49:56 PM
...

Totally, it's not like Thirsty Sword Lesbians is the exact same but on the opposite way. AND it's allowed to exist and sell.

If only those evul right wingers would let us trample them nothing of the rules made to trample them would be neccessary...

You, Pundit, and everyone else taking this position are the sort that goes: "I'm for free speech but".

My take is this:

DTRPG: "We're gonna ban the fuck out of you for doing x." (Everyone knows that this will be applied in a total double standard fashion, one way only.)

RedRoom: "Look everyone; we're doing x!"

DTRPG: "Banned!!! Because you did x... ( + our own double standards that are well known throughout the hobby)."



What did people think would happen? Honestly...

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:26:07 PM
When DTRPG started out I am quite sure that all the same criticism was present. But I loved them! They had a great attitude, they were pro-gamer, and were incredibly helpful whether you were a buyer or a seller... even if their website was not state-of-the-art and cutting edge! Now they have become woke-wankers treating people unfairly and unjustly -- changing contract terms on the fly because... of reasons. I will not do any further business with them unless their business practices change. And even then not likely.

When DTRPG was starting up, they weren't trying to enter an established marketplace. It was basically them and RPGNow. A very tiny handful of publishers sold their own products in PDF form from their own primitive storefronts, and that was basically it. That's still basically true, actually, but in the ~20 years since DTRPG started up (and absorbed RPGNow), they've become wildly successful. It's much harder now to enter the market, because there's basically a quasi-monopolistic juggernaut to fight.

And, I'm sorry to say, right now BGE offers less than those early fledgling companies did twenty years ago.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:26:07 PMAs for BGE they are making great efforts to restore some small level of fairness to the system. That is more important to me than whatever it is that drive sheep to follow the herd to DTRPG. Be part of the problem if you want. Have a nice day!

"Whatever it is that drive sheep to follow the herd to DTRPG" isn't some mystery. They have what people want to buy. That's not true of BGE. You can scream about sheep and whatever else you want to, but what are people supposed to do, buy stuff they don't want?

I just spent some time on BGE. I couldn't find one thing I wanted to buy. I'm not saying there's nothing anyone would want to buy - I know some people here either do are planning to sell there. But there isn't much there with... appeal, shall we say. Some assets and adventures, mostly. A very small handful of core books for extremely indie games I've never heard of and couldn't care less about. One or two OSR products I've at least heard of... at least I think so. It's sometimes had to keep OSR products straight, because so many of them have names that are just mild variations on each other. I think Dungeons and Delvers was literally the only product I found that stood out to me.

And that's from what I could see. Every time I tried to flip to another page of results, the page would never load. basically all I could do was browse through categories and look at the first page - if there even was more than one page of results, which was rare. But all sites break from time to time, so I can't really hold that against them too bad.

I want to be very clear: I'm not condemning BGE. If it succeeds, great. I hope it does! But right now, I also can't condemn anyone who wants to... actually buy stuff. Because basically, with BGE right now, in it's current state? They can't.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 21, 2023, 05:08:17 PM
There is always that big... BUTT!!! Oh well. whatever.

Talking of, been getting back into minis painting. Love these printed resin minis. 
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/669313909332901921/1076851602515828786/20230219_130217.jpg

Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2023, 06:00:00 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 21, 2023, 05:08:17 PM
There is always that big... BUTT!!! Oh well. whatever.

(snip!)

Talking of, been getting back into minis painting. Love these printed resin minis. 

That picture is kinda NSFW. Does this forum have a spoiler tag?

Quote from: Wtrmute on February 21, 2023, 06:55:37 PM

Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2023, 06:00:00 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 21, 2023, 05:08:17 PM
There is always that big... BUTT!!! Oh well. whatever.

(snip!)

Talking of, been getting back into minis painting. Love these printed resin minis. 

That picture is kinda NSFW. Does this forum have a spoiler tag?

I can't see one. I've replaced pic w link.   

Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2023, 06:57:56 PM
I can't see one. I've replaced pic w link.   

I'm sorry if I came across as rude. It's definitely a very nice mini, it's just that the missus kind of gave me the stinkeye... 

Ha-ha, censorship!

My real problem with all this censorship buzz is that these woke scolds, actually, more often than not have an effect. For example, Drivethru will act on a few complaints, and as we've seen some are bogus just targeting people that are not liked by certain individuals. This will often cause 'self-censorship' through fear of income loss. Thus stifling a person's right to create we've seen it for Venger, GJ, LoTFP, etc.

Another perfect example is the whole Mythic Polynesia debacle. We still don't know exactly what happened and why the product is no longer on DT. My gut tells me that they took it down themselves but left it up on their own website probably hoping that they could sell it through word of mouth, etc. On DT it was just gaining too much heat in the comments and was keeping it alive on sites like the Pub, Twitter and RPG.net. I could be wrong.

Regardless, I think this will have a profound effect on TDM (and possibly other companies who've watched this unfold). For one, a body of work that they were obviously proud of, and put a lot of effort into, has effectively been woke'd from the public eye and swept under the carpet. Any future releases from them will now be walking on eggshells. And god knows how much more work they will have to put in now just to make sure it doesn't bother a few bedwetters. Will they be hiring sensitivity consultants? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I mean Puffin is now altering classic works from Roald Dahl just to not hurt feefees. What's next?

Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2023, 06:57:56 PM

Quote from: Wtrmute on February 21, 2023, 06:55:37 PM

Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2023, 06:00:00 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 21, 2023, 05:08:17 PM
There is always that big... BUTT!!! Oh well. whatever.

(snip!)

Talking of, been getting back into minis painting. Love these printed resin minis. 

That picture is kinda NSFW. Does this forum have a spoiler tag?

I can't see one. I've replaced pic w link.   

Anybody want the link to the mini?  NSFW, FYI.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1016764645/female-human-paladin-pinup-dnd-miniature?click_key=f622262b96cee07c5d31b6b2dc0a4e3d5bc74fee%3A1016764645&click_sum=9555b090&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=nude+mini+warrior&ref=sr_gallery-2-1&organic_search_click=1&sts=1&from_search=1

As for censorship.  DTRPG is allowed to do as they please.  It's their right.  Just know the Big Geek Emporium exists as a tiny, but hopefully growing alternative.

I'm just surprised that DTRPG and BGE exist and we're not all shopping on Amazon for game PDFs and books. 

I won't be happy until her nipples protrude through the cloth.