Re: Thirsty Sword Lesbians and the Men RPG

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 20, 2023, 07:52:42 AM
No, I'm suggesting that BOTH are a politicization of gaming, and products whose appeal will largely be to buy them to show virtue with your own 'tribe' and to "own" the other side, and therefore I think that both are stupid and contrary to what I want the hobby to be about. I don't want a hobby full of conservative propagandism any more than I want one full of leftist propagandism. I want a hobby that is about the games.

I haven't read or played either of these games myself, so some caveats here.

There are games that people only buy or read as a statement, and that aren't fun to play on their own - even by a narrow segment of the audience. As an example, even among left-leaning storygaming circles, I've never seen anyone playing the Steal Away Jordan RPG - though it was critically acclaimed. The author genuinely did run playtests, but I also think the buzz around it was purely on the political statement, not how fun people found the gameplay. I think F.A.T.A.L. and Racial Holy War are similar.

However, there are also games that are played and enjoyed by a small segment of the gaming audience. White Wolf has put out a lot of intentionally edgy RPGs that as far as I can tell, their fans genuinely enjoy playing. My impression is that the same is true of the World of Gor RPG, for example. I'm not interested in those - but I have enjoyed some RPGs that have been called edgy like Blue Rose, Macho Women With Guns, and Bluebeard's Bride. While I haven't played Thirsty Sword Lesbians, I've been at gaming meetups where it was played - and I have friends who have played it. As far as I can tell, they were enjoying themselves.

I have almost no knowledge of the Men RPG, so I don't know where it would land. If there are people who would genuinely enjoy playing it, I think that makes it different from a pure statement.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 20, 2023, 12:34:54 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:26:07 PM
As for BGE they are making great efforts to restore some small level of fairness to the system. That is more important to me than whatever it is that drive sheep to follow the herd to DTRPG. Be part of the problem if you want.

Same here...The only way BGE can thrive is if we start making an effort to put material up there. As for DT I'm going to do my best to buy from BGE where possible or go directly to the publisher. I've backed a load of kickstarters so these will mostly be filled by DT. So I'm stuck with those.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:59:26 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 20, 2023, 12:34:54 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:26:07 PM
As for BGE they are making great efforts to restore some small level of fairness to the system. That is more important to me than whatever it is that drive sheep to follow the herd to DTRPG. Be part of the problem if you want.

Same here...The only way BGE can thrive is if we start making an effort to put material up there. As for DT I'm going to do my best to buy from BGE where possible or go directly to the publisher. I've backed a load of kickstarters so these will mostly be filled by DT. So I'm stuck with those.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Indeed... And I think we (or most of us did) drop the ball after the 'hostile marketing' thing was announced originally. I mean not many people acted on it (myself included). I have a load of weapon silhouettes drawn and I'll pop up for there cheap (for a start).

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:59:26 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 20, 2023, 12:34:54 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:26:07 PM
As for BGE they are making great efforts to restore some small level of fairness to the system. That is more important to me than whatever it is that drive sheep to follow the herd to DTRPG. Be part of the problem if you want.

Same here...The only way BGE can thrive is if we start making an effort to put material up there. As for DT I'm going to do my best to buy from BGE where possible or go directly to the publisher. I've backed a load of kickstarters so these will mostly be filled by DT. So I'm stuck with those.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

It does... but its also important to not start the journey of a thousand miles wearing lousy shoes and no compass/map to make sure you don't end up with aching feet after walking ten miles in the wrong direction.

For an example of a parallel economy product that's actually succeeding enough to put up television ads mocking the Left's censorship and come to their site, take a look at Rumble in the field of video streaming. They have from the beginning been actively courting people to cross post to it, even if it wouldn't be banned on YouTube so as to increase the reach of content creator videos beyond where they'd normally reach.

Yes, they're pro-free speech, but they haven't been relying on THAT as the sole reason for content creators to make the switch. Their primary draw is an alternate market who has unplugged from YouTube over its censorship.

Frankly, if a site like Big Geek Emporium wants to possibly challenge OBS in the field of RPG sales, then the third thing (after getting a name that doesn't imply anything about its customer base and fixing their user interface*) would be to court any and every RPG publisher with more favorable terms than OBS offers. Make it something where, if they haven't gone OBS exclusive, throwing their products up on an alternate site to reach an alternate market is a no-brainer. Once you get enough traffic moving then whether or not to stay OBS exclusive becomes something the exclusive publishers will be willing to consider.

Free Speech on its own will only get you a few diehard publishers and those deliberately seeking to be that edgy fringe that only appeals to maybe 10% of an already small pie. The majority are going to be asking "What's in it for me?" and a competitor to OBS needs to have an appealing answer to that question.

* ETA: another thing to add to the list of things to add to the user interface would be to add a NSFW filter that's easy to find. The first time I went there there was a cover with a nude in a mask (without even a particular reason related to the content that I was able to discern) at the top of page two of the products list which is all sorts of problematic if you get any prudish parents contacting web hosts about the lack of content warnings (or wokies pretending to be ones just to cause issues).

Basically, they just cut out a whole section of potential customers because some edgelord wanted a little softcore porn on their cover to get attention.

If I ever get around to writing my own RPG, something lots of us think about, it will go on Big Geek Emporium.  Period. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 20, 2023, 01:50:32 PM
If I ever get around to writing my own RPG, something lots of us think about, it will go on Big Geek Emporium.  Period.

It doesn't sound like any of the really racy ones have landed anywhere at all.  If BGE is hosting Fun Rape Adventures: Into the Dungeon and maybe Sensational Sonnenrad: Lighting Weapons of the Fifth Space Reich, then I would believe that they successfully resisted a pressure campaign.  Until then, I'll just assume that no one has come by to shake their tree too hard yet.

DTR hasn't banned Pundit or Macris, and just mentioning these guys on reddit is like a 30% chance to summon some antifa in black bloc to call you names and scanning your post history to see if you mentioned your real identity, so that they can see if they can call your boss and wreck you IRL.  So I don't think that they are doing political activism as much as bowing to pressure or in some cases responding to deliberate challenges that are meant to stir shit up.  I dislike that they banned OP's stuff based on one butthurt bitch, but I don't have any reason to believe BGE would absolutely not do that either.

Quote from: Venka on February 20, 2023, 02:14:47 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 20, 2023, 01:50:32 PM
If I ever get around to writing my own RPG, something lots of us think about, it will go on Big Geek Emporium.  Period.

It doesn't sound like any of the really racy ones have landed anywhere at all.  If BGE is hosting Fun Rape Adventures: Into the Dungeon and maybe Sensational Sonnenrad: Lighting Weapons of the Fifth Space Reich, then I would believe that they successfully resisted a pressure campaign.  Until then, I'll just assume that no one has come by to shake their tree too hard yet.

DTR hasn't banned Pundit or Macris, and just mentioning these guys on reddit is like a 30% chance to summon some antifa in black bloc to call you names and scanning your post history to see if you mentioned your real identity, so that they can see if they can call your boss and wreck you IRL.  So I don't think that they are doing political activism as much as bowing to pressure or in some cases responding to deliberate challenges that are meant to stir shit up.  I dislike that they banned OP's stuff based on one butthurt bitch, but I don't have any reason to believe BGE would absolutely not do that either.

It has more to do with me watching Biggus Geekus podcasts and having some minor interactions with Randy and Joe when they come on the Legion of Myth Friday Night Chill Stream.  It's not much, but the feeling of them being, "one of us," is strong with them. 

It's not about money.  It would be about sticking close to the dudes I trust and know.

Moot point.  I'm no closer to writing my own RPG than I am to buying a sailing yacht. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 20, 2023, 01:50:32 PM
If I ever get around to writing my own RPG, something lots of us think about, it will go on Big Geek Emporium.  Period.

Bingo. I will not do business with people who hate me. At least not unless they actually get to know me. Then they might have a good reason!

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 19, 2023, 08:39:01 AM

Quote from: Zalman on February 19, 2023, 08:36:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2023, 05:45:45 PM
Look, you can argue about how there's a double standard of content policing with DTRPG, where a game like Men is banned, but Thirsty Sword Lesbians (which features the sword lesbians purging a restaurant of heterosexuals) is allowed to stay on and become a bestseller.

But there is NO question in my mind that this game "Men" was written not as an RPG but as a POLITICAL MESSAGE. And that it's intent was to be offensive.

Wait, are you suggesting that the intent of Thirsty Sword Lesbians is otherwise?

The game has 3 central design tenets:

1) Virtue signal.
2) Piss off "the right people."
3) Make virtually no money, but still win awards.

It takes a couple of seconds of Googling to bring up counter-evidence: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1448774890266390533; then, a couple of minutes of figuring out Twitter search syntax to get more: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1463599029212880901

According to the publisher, Thirsty Sword Lesbians sold over 13k copies in the first 3-6 months after the kickstarter, which is grossing 195k+; grossing over $500k in the first year including the second $100k Kickstarter.

Another $40k+ gross in first quarter 2022? https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1516871792140308480

That's not "virtual no money".

Quote from: Naburimannu on February 20, 2023, 05:02:42 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 19, 2023, 08:39:01 AM

Quote from: Zalman on February 19, 2023, 08:36:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2023, 05:45:45 PM
Look, you can argue about how there's a double standard of content policing with DTRPG, where a game like Men is banned, but Thirsty Sword Lesbians (which features the sword lesbians purging a restaurant of heterosexuals) is allowed to stay on and become a bestseller.

But there is NO question in my mind that this game "Men" was written not as an RPG but as a POLITICAL MESSAGE. And that it's intent was to be offensive.

Wait, are you suggesting that the intent of Thirsty Sword Lesbians is otherwise?

The game has 3 central design tenets:

1) Virtue signal.
2) Piss off "the right people."
3) Make virtually no money, but still win awards.

It takes a couple of seconds of Googling to bring up counter-evidence: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1448774890266390533; then, a couple of minutes of figuring out Twitter search syntax to get more: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1463599029212880901

According to the publisher, Thirsty Sword Lesbians sold over 13k copies in the first 3-6 months after the kickstarter, which is grossing 195k+; grossing over $500k in the first year including the second $100k Kickstarter.

Another $40k+ gross in first quarter 2022? https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1516871792140308480

That's not "virtual no money".

Minus all the expenses involved on the making, we know Coyote & Crow made 1 million on KS and still the developer was begging for more sales because it's not how much gross you make, it's how much net you have left after costs and taxes.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 20, 2023, 05:54:26 PM
Minus all the expenses involved on the making, we know Coyote & Crow made 1 million on KS and still the developer was begging for more sales because it's not how much gross you make, it's how much net you have left after costs and taxes.

Yeah, a lot of that cash is getting hoovered up on wages, etc.

I know it did well but does anyone really play it? it sounds so naff.

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that a product like TSL would make money. It's expected to earn money regardless of any actual merit. Much like Black Lives Matter rakes in billions of dollars while demonstrably getting people killed and making society and everyone else worse off. The best thing you can do is grift on the anti-White, anti-Male hatred of this cult and use the money to make actual quality stuff.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 20, 2023, 06:00:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 20, 2023, 05:54:26 PM
Minus all the expenses involved on the making, we know Coyote & Crow made 1 million on KS and still the developer was begging for more sales because it's not how much gross you make, it's how much net you have left after costs and taxes.

Yeah, a lot of that cash is getting hoovered up on wages, etc.

I know it did well but does anyone really play it? it sounds so naff.

I think so. I've at least read through Coyote & Crow. I feel the learning curve for the setting is difficult, so I suspect there are a bunch of people who will try it, then get tired of it and switch back to something easier. But that's just a guess. There was one Coyote & Crow event at DunDraCon yesterday afternoon, which isn't much of a sample but it's at least one point.

There were five Thirsty Sword Lesbian events at Big Bad Con 2022, and a friend of mine said that their event was a lot of fun.

I haven't tried either game, but there is a market segment that seems to enjoy them. Different people have different tastes in games.

Quote from: jhkim on February 20, 2023, 06:23:39 PM
Different people have different tastes in games.

That's true of course... I've never really liked comedy games myself.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 12:18:39 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 20, 2023, 07:41:32 AM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 18, 2023, 10:38:19 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 18, 2023, 05:49:51 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 18, 2023, 11:57:44 AM
Well after five days of reviewing my little adventure about fighting strange occult bad guys during WW II, I got an answer from the assholes at DTRPG (I paraphrase):

Everything is cool with the adventure, although they suggested I change the cover which had a graphic image of the Black Sun (from the 19th Century not related to Nazis)

The Black Sun symbol certainly IS related to Nazis. Just because it predates Nazism as a movement doesn't mean anything. I'm not saying that the image shouldn't be used in a game or even on the cover of a game, it depends on the context. But claiming it's got nothing to do with Nazis is bullshit.

Never claimed that. The adventure is set in WW II with the SAS and French Resistance fighting a bunch of occult assholes. I said my initial image was from the 19th Century... before the Nazis existed. I did not claim the symbol of the Black Sun was not a nazi symbol.

In the part you quoted, you are literally saying "19th century not related to the nazis".

From the context of my statement, do you really think I was implying in any way that the symbol of the Black Sun was NOT part of the Nazis? Or was I just saying that the original picture was from the 19th century (before there were Nazis) and therefore not a Nazi image? If you want to see it that way so be it. You are going to believe what you want. If you want to believe I am some sort of Jewish Nazi apologist... SMH.

Just because you put it on the cover (and not knowing anything about the content itself) I wouldn't immediately assume you were a Nazi just because of having that symbol on the cover. What I am saying, though is that claiming it was "not a Nazi image" (given that the Nazi's major symbols were ALL from historical sources that predated them, including the swastika and the sigull runes of the SS, the two most famous ones) is a pretty poor attempt at justification.