Quote from: Diversity Dragon on February 16, 2023, 11:02:35 PMAnyone with a "content policy" like theirs is just itching to use it.

"Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime."

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

Ohh, the humanity! Describing how the obviously evil man is obviously evil so the players have a reason to despise him in a FICTIONAL setting is naturally a bridge too far. Now let's all support hormone blockers for 7 year-olds and chemically castrate them as a prelude to the physical genital mutilation they will receive at age 10 in THE REAL WORLD.

If anyone needs me I'll be out back cleaning my woodchipper.

The YT/Rumble thing follows the same dynamic and DTRPG/BGE.

I.e., the bigger they get, the more the censorship hurts - BUT the bigger the censorship, the stronger the competition becomes.

Nowadays I use rumble to watch stuff that is forbidden on YT (which is increasingly common in my country).

DTRPG is the same: I rarely buy stuff elsewhere (Lulu, Itch.io), but now I'm curious about certain books (red room) that can no longer be found there, so I'm getting stuff from BGE too.

[with that said, I do think jhkim found what is the issue with BSOE. Still curious about the Red Room however - why exactly were the banned?]

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

I am sorry that you found the almost word for word description of the court case findings against Gille Derais, found in a history book, disturbing to you. I find it difficult to believe that creating a villain based upon an actual person, and accurately describing that person is the cause of this problem. Particularly since I removed most of the really graphic stuff.

But even if it was, it has been 4 days since it has been pulled and I still do not know what the problem is. So perhaps you are right? I don't know.

Quote from: Effete on February 17, 2023, 08:29:00 AM

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

Ohh, the humanity! Describing how the obviously evil man is obviously evil so the players have a reason to despise him in a FICTIONAL setting is naturally a bridge too far. Now let's all support hormone blockers for 7 year-olds and chemically castrate them as a prelude to the physical genital mutilation they will receive at age 10 in THE REAL WORLD.

If anyone needs me I'll be out back cleaning my woodchipper.

I think we all need a woodchipper.

Quote from: Effete on February 17, 2023, 08:29:00 AM

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

Ohh, the humanity! Describing how the obviously evil man is obviously evil so the players have a reason to despise him in a FICTIONAL setting is naturally a bridge too far. Now let's all support hormone blockers for 7 year-olds and chemically castrate them as a prelude to the physical genital mutilation they will receive at age 10 in THE REAL WORLD.

If anyone needs me I'll be out back cleaning my woodchipper.

The actual bridge too far for the woke was clearly in depicting a "minor attracted person" with dismemberment and necrophilic fetishs as a villain and not a poor soul misunderstood by the evil patriarchal heteronormative society judging him.

We're going to need more wood chippers.

Quote from: Chris24601 on February 17, 2023, 10:01:19 AM

Quote from: Effete on February 17, 2023, 08:29:00 AM

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

Ohh, the humanity! Describing how the obviously evil man is obviously evil so the players have a reason to despise him in a FICTIONAL setting is naturally a bridge too far. Now let's all support hormone blockers for 7 year-olds and chemically castrate them as a prelude to the physical genital mutilation they will receive at age 10 in THE REAL WORLD.

If anyone needs me I'll be out back cleaning my woodchipper.

The actual bridge too far for the woke was clearly in depicting a "minor attracted person" with dismemberment and necrophilic fetishs as a villain and not a poor soul misunderstood by the evil patriarchal heteronormative society judging him.

We're going to need more wood chippers.

HMMMMMMMM. that might very well be the problem. If only I had made Gille Derais the hero of the story?

However, the historically accurate (but not overly graphic) description taken from a history book anyone can buy is contained in the section for GM EYES ONLY so the the GM can just choose to not include it in the game. I am so sick of the 21st Century. I wrote this little adventure over 10 years ago.

Mark my words, things are about to get much worse very quickly.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 16, 2023, 12:29:35 PM
User experience is very important, but couldn't BGE just improve on theirs?

Yes. And they better do so soon, as user experience is more important that ideological affiliation.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 16, 2023, 04:19:00 PM
So I saw a post by Miguel from the Red Room on Facebook - It looks like their store had been permanently banned under Drivethru's 'hostile marketing' clause.

Could you provide a link? Really wish folks would stop using #Facebook as their public face.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on February 17, 2023, 10:34:50 AM
Mark my words, things are about to get much worse very quickly.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 16, 2023, 12:29:35 PM
User experience is very important, but couldn't BGE just improve on theirs?

Yes. And they better do so soon, as user experience is more important that ideological affiliation.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 16, 2023, 04:19:00 PM
So I saw a post by Miguel from the Red Room on Facebook - It looks like their store had been permanently banned under Drivethru's 'hostile marketing' clause.

Could you provide a link? Really wish folks would stop using #Facebook as their public face.

He also posted on MeWe:

https://mewe.com/i/moordereht

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on February 17, 2023, 10:34:50 AM
Really wish folks would stop using #Facebook as their public face.

Amen. Or any other social media platform for that matter. It's not really any harder to set up a regular website.

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM
Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

That is literally quoted in the Wikipedia entry for Gilles de Rais.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais#Child_murders

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 17, 2023, 11:13:59 AM
He also posted on MeWe:

https://mewe.com/i/moordereht

They put it on their website as well.

https://moordereht.com/2023/02/17/is-this-the-end-of-the-red-room/

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 17, 2023, 09:32:12 AM

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

I am sorry that you found the almost word for word description of the court case findings against Gille Derais, found in a history book, disturbing to you. I find it difficult to believe that creating a villain based upon an actual person, and accurately describing that person is the cause of this problem. Particularly since I removed most of the really graphic stuff.

WTF? I didn't say I found it disturbing. I just pointed it out since both you and Eric Diaz were speculating as to why, and no one else had mentioned it. Obviously, yes, there exist rapists and serial killers of children in the real world, but it seems like DTRPG's bannings have been over including those in RPG material.

My pointing it out isn't endorsing DTRPG.

Having looked over the adventure, here is my other feedback:

1) The repeated text between the Player's Section and the GM section is jarring. I guess this is for when you print it out as a one shot so that the GM also has a copy of the player material, but that isn't the usual practice for a published module, and it makes the 26-page module seem padded.

2) The player's section includes material that seems GM-specific, such as description of the crypts under the church, which the SAS would know nothing of. Also, the slightly different but overlapping text on page 8 and page 23 describes what the SAS team are doing initially. I guess that's intended for starting "in media res", but if so, the GM section should just refer to the player section rather than partially repeating the same text.

3) If there are two PC teams (SAS and Nazi), they should have very different initial player material, but that doesn't seem acknowledged. The SAS would have no reason to have briefing on Joan of Arc. The Nazi team shouldn't know about the approaching SAS.

4) Regarding the expected adventure. If there is only one PC team of SAS, then it seems likely that they will just come in, shoot the four Nazis, and leave with the girl (or die trying). The backstory won't factor in, and they're unlikely to talk to the Black Sun. I would think that giving the SAS some reason to investigate might help bring in the backstory.

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 12:28:14 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 17, 2023, 09:32:12 AM

Quote from: jhkim on February 17, 2023, 01:59:30 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Based on the other cases, I think this passage from the module ("Black Sun over Europe") stands out as the possible issue:

QuoteFrom the testimony of his accomplices it was discovered that not only did Gille Derais sexually abuse the children prior to murdering them, but he also abused their corpses, and had a particular interest in abusing the wounds and dismembered parts of the dead children. He took "infinitely more pleasure in debauching (the open wounds and bloody entrails)... than in using their natural orifice, in the normal manner."

I don't know if there are other RPG products which have similar, but it seems a common issue between these products.

I am sorry that you found the almost word for word description of the court case findings against Gille Derais, found in a history book, disturbing to you. I find it difficult to believe that creating a villain based upon an actual person, and accurately describing that person is the cause of this problem. Particularly since I removed most of the really graphic stuff.

WTF? I didn't say I found it disturbing. I just pointed it out since both you and Eric Diaz were speculating as to why, and no one else had mentioned it. Obviously, yes, there exist rapists and serial killers of children in the real world, but it seems like DTRPG's bannings have been over including those in RPG material.

My pointing it out isn't endorsing DTRPG.

Having looked over the adventure, here is my other feedback:

1) The repeated text between the Player's Section and the GM section is jarring. I guess this is for when you print it out as a one shot so that the GM also has a copy of the player material, but that isn't the usual practice for a published module, and it makes the 26-page module seem padded.

2) The player's section includes material that seems GM-specific, such as description of the crypts under the church, which the SAS would know nothing of. Also, the slightly different but overlapping text on page 8 and page 23 describes what the SAS team are doing initially. I guess that's intended for starting "in media res", but if so, the GM section should just refer to the player section rather than partially repeating the same text.

3) If there are two PC teams (SAS and Nazi), they should have very different initial player material, but that doesn't seem acknowledged. The SAS would have no reason to have briefing on Joan of Arc. The Nazi team shouldn't know about the approaching SAS.

4) Regarding the expected adventure. If there is only one PC team of SAS, then it seems likely that they will just come in, shoot the four Nazis, and leave with the girl (or die trying). The backstory won't factor in, and they're unlikely to talk to the Black Sun. I would think that giving the SAS some reason to investigate might help bring in the backstory.

Thank you and sorry for making an assumption!

I will think about and review #1 through #3.

As for #4 if you play Pulp Kharma I think you will find that is not how things work. It is very pulpy!