On this topic, I recently bought some stuff from DriveThruRPG and my Paypal statement indicated that payment went to Roll20 LLC. Does this mean it's Roll20 that has acquired OneBookShelf? I always thought it was OBS would continue to be its own autonomous entity.

Going for those sweet, sweet woke bucks like a pile of silver spoons

Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, allegedly because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

I'm not commenting on the first two for lack of information/proof.

Now, I have briefly read The Good Syma'arian and it is not obvious to me why this book should be banned. Maybe Venger can point to the specific parts they objected (IIRC they suggested some changes). I know there are books with more violence (including against children) in DTRPG, and I am suspicious it was banned for being explicitly anti-abortion. I will not point to more violent books because I don't want to cause more banning, but some should be obvious.

Anyway, it's free on BGE:

https://biggeekemporium.com/product/the-good-symaarian/

And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Are there other cases we should know?

Quote from: mudbanks on February 15, 2023, 10:17:31 AM
On this topic, I recently bought some stuff from DriveThruRPG and my Paypal statement indicated that payment went to Roll20 LLC. Does this mean it's Roll20 that has acquired OneBookShelf? I always thought it was OBS would continue to be its own autonomous entity.

One month before Hasbro announced One D&D (and WotC's push for a more digital focus) OBS and Roll20 said that they were merging. My though process at the time was that they wanted to create a single, stronger company for the inevitable future when WotC moves all their digital sales and VTT support in house. However, this would imply that OBS/Roll20 would need indie game even more in the future and, thus, they wouldn't treat their indie creators as disposable.

So, yes, OBS and Roll20 are now one company. And I don't know how they plan to survive in a post-D&D economy.

News story for verification:
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/roll20-onebookshelf-merger-dmsguild-drivethrurpg-ttrpg-dungeons-dragons/

Quote from: mudbanks on February 15, 2023, 10:17:31 AM
On this topic, I recently bought some stuff from DriveThruRPG and my Paypal statement indicated that payment went to Roll20 LLC. Does this mean it's Roll20 that has acquired OneBookShelf? I always thought it was OBS would continue to be its own autonomous entity.

From what I read OneBookShelf bought Roll20 LLC, but is keeping the name Roll20 (and all the others it owns) since it has such great name recognition.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 10:55:58 AM
Last time I was asked, I said DTRPG rarely banned games, but now I'm thinking there should be a list of banned books so we can keep track.

I'd only heard f three cases before this one:

- Tournament of rapists, because contained (fictional) SA.
- A famous OSR author who was allegedly accused of certain things.
- The Good Syma'arian, allegedly because it contained violence against (fictional) children.

I'm not commenting on the first two for lack of information/proof.

Now, I have briefly read The Good Syma'arian and it is not obvious to me why this book should be banned. Maybe Venger can point to the specific parts they objected (IIRC they suggested some changes). I know there are books with more violence (including against children) in DTRPG, and I am suspicious it was banned for being explicitly anti-abortion. I will not point to more violent books because I don't want to cause more banning, but some should be obvious.

Anyway, it's free on BGE:

https://biggeekemporium.com/product/the-good-symaarian/

And now we got a book banned for no apparent reason, and no suggested changes. Maybe it was the cover? Seems odd, since national-socialist villains are very common.

Are there other cases we should know?

I was thinking it was the cover too. But it has been posted on DTRPG with an even more 'nazi' cover than this one. Its about fighting against an evil occult nazi conspiracy combined with an ancient demonic evil for G-d's sake!

And in fairness they have not 'permanently' banned it, but just pulled it pending a thorough review.

I would have appreciated if they had told me the nature of the complaint so that I could have responded in defense and perhaps even complied with suggestions on the offensive content (I have already changed the cover just in case that is it...). After all I am not really that interested in irritating people outside my small group of friends and family who just have to take it! but like the goose-stepping Gestapo that the woketards have become there can be no defense for the accused!

So again, Fuck 'em! I have posted it on BGE and ITCHIO and I will get it onto print-on-demand at Amazon and LULU and DTRPG can go pound sand -- I suspect they will do just fine without me.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on February 15, 2023, 11:01:48 AM

However, this would imply that OBS/Roll20 would need indie game even more in the future and, thus, they wouldn't treat their indie creators as disposable...

News story for verification:
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/roll20-onebookshelf-merger-dmsguild-drivethrurpg-ttrpg-dungeons-dragons/

I think what has happened at OBS/Roll20 is that they are focusing upon the 'bigger' indie creators. I am not one of those, and thus very disposable. and in a way I sort of agree. A year ago I used to make about $100 a month from what I sold on DTRPG. Better than sofa-money but not exactly the dreams of folks looking to take on WotC. Then something happened and my stuff stopped being displayed on the front page, and my sales collapsed. I also noticed that only a few creators ever got into the top 10. I don't think it would be fair to say they were 'shadow-banning' me since I don't think they cared about me at all. Perhaps the better term is 'throttled down' with a new algorithm that focuses on giving more attention to the bigger players. Again, I suspect it might be a wise decision to run folks like me off, and focus on those producers who can and do generate lots of sales. That ain't me except in my dreams! But I keep trying!

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 15, 2023, 11:15:48 AM
And in fairness they have not 'permanently' banned it, but just pulled it pending a thorough review.

Ah, well, this is different. It happened several times, but most of the times it goes back online - or they tell you what the problem is.

It happens when someone complains, and they take a while to review - which, if someone dislikes you, can be used to temporarily damage your sales with no repercussions.

Keep us updated if you can!

Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 15, 2023, 11:53:10 AM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 15, 2023, 11:15:48 AM
And in fairness they have not 'permanently' banned it, but just pulled it pending a thorough review.

Ah, well, this is different. It happened several times, but most of the times it goes back online - or they tell you what the problem is.

It happens when someone complains, and they take a while to review - which, if someone dislikes you, can be used to temporarily damage your sales with no repercussions.

Keep us updated if you can!

Innocent until proven guilty, the item should be up for sale while they do their review or else they should put it on hold for I dunno, 2 hours? while they review and resolve the issue.

But they love hurting those they disagree with so they will not change their policies/methods.

I think them having exclusive rights of distribution, even after they decide to cancel it, thus removing it from all market distribution for a period of time; sounds like horse shit.  I would immediately offer it elsewhere.  Not doing so, effectively allows them temporary ownership; of a work they did not create or purchase.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 14, 2023, 09:38:50 PM

Quote from: Wtrmute on February 14, 2023, 08:22:57 PM
I'm sorry to hear that, Squirewaldo; while I myself am the kind of guy who doesn't appreciate certain racy themes (not that this particular game seems to be that), it's not Drivethru's place to make that decision for people.

At the very most, they could place the document on the "NSFW" class which requires buyers to tick a checkbox in their profile to see...

I can only speculate as to WHY there is a problem, but I know it is not because it is in any way racy. The only thing I can think about is that the game is about WW II, and it is about the Nazis and some other very strange occult sort of things that Nazis dabbled in. But I don't know. It might be because I used the wrong font size, or that I used an image that someone finds alarming?

I think a spinoff, that mixed Nazis and Cthulhu type stuff; would be interesting.  Especially, if at the end of the plot; the Nazis come to realize that their destruction was always part of Cthulhu's agenda.  The Nazis were being helped along in their destructive ways, but they too would be destroyed in the process.  Cthulhu loves no one.

Quote from: Jam The MF on February 15, 2023, 01:48:20 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 14, 2023, 09:38:50 PM

Quote from: Wtrmute on February 14, 2023, 08:22:57 PM
I'm sorry to hear that, Squirewaldo; while I myself am the kind of guy who doesn't appreciate certain racy themes (not that this particular game seems to be that), it's not Drivethru's place to make that decision for people.

At the very most, they could place the document on the "NSFW" class which requires buyers to tick a checkbox in their profile to see...

I can only speculate as to WHY there is a problem, but I know it is not because it is in any way racy. The only thing I can think about is that the game is about WW II, and it is about the Nazis and some other very strange occult sort of things that Nazis dabbled in. But I don't know. It might be because I used the wrong font size, or that I used an image that someone finds alarming?

I think a spinoff, that mixed Nazis and Cthulhu type stuff; would be interesting.  Especially, if at the end of the plot; the Nazis come to realize that their destruction was always part of Cthulhu's agenda.  The Nazis were being helped along in their destructive ways, but they too would be destroyed in the process.  Cthulhu loves no one.

My adventure did not involve Cthulhu, but involved a sinister ancient evil that was looking to take advantage of the chaos of WW II.

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 14, 2023, 09:38:50 PM
I can only speculate as to WHY there is a problem, but I know it is not because it is in any way racy. The only thing I can think about is that the game is about WW II, and it is about the Nazis and some other very strange occult sort of things that Nazis dabbled in. But I don't know. It might be because I used the wrong font size, or that I used an image that someone finds alarming?

I checked it out over on BGE.  If I had to place a bet, I think the cover image just being a big nazi occult symbol is probably what got their attention.  Whoever flagged it probably never got past that.

Here's hoping Big Geek Emporium grows into a major competitor!!

Quote from: Almost_Useless on February 15, 2023, 10:49:39 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on February 14, 2023, 09:38:50 PM
I can only speculate as to WHY there is a problem, but I know it is not because it is in any way racy. The only thing I can think about is that the game is about WW II, and it is about the Nazis and some other very strange occult sort of things that Nazis dabbled in. But I don't know. It might be because I used the wrong font size, or that I used an image that someone finds alarming?

I checked it out over on BGE.  If I had to place a bet, I think the cover image just being a big nazi occult symbol is probably what got their attention.  Whoever flagged it probably never got past that.

That is my guess as well. But before the current cover of the Black Sun radials I had a really 'bad' one with a death head with runes cut into the skull and it was up for over 5 years without comment. Still no word from DTRPG. Good luck to them.