Quote from: SpikeThen yes, he DOES expect it.  Unless expecting is some Jargon term.  He is saying "I expect this behavior or I will not attend the Con" no more no less.


To be honest, I was completely apathetic about the entire original post until I got to his comments about not doing any paperwork, or more specifically the part where he said he'd rip it up and toss it. The arrogance of that single line cast everything else he said in the most negative light imaginable.

I read that as mere hyperbole, I struggle to imagine that in real life he would do anything so utterly shitty.  Every post I've read from people talking about meeting him has described him as ok, and ok people don't do things like that.

Hyperbole, he's posting online, I think that's all there is to that.  Hopefully.

Quote from: BalbinusI read that as mere hyperbole, I struggle to imagine that in real life he would do anything so utterly shitty.  Every post I've read from people talking about meeting him has described him as ok, and ok people don't do things like that.

Hyperbole, he's posting online, I think that's all there is to that.  Hopefully.

Then I think it would be non-hyberbolic of me to say that's the shittiest use of the word "literally" I've seen in a long time.

Quote from: jrientsThen I think it would be non-hyberbolic of me to say that's the shittiest use of the word "literally" I've seen in a long time.

Nah, you're not honed in on the Indie mindset. Saying you're "literally going to take any sheets or tickets and throw them away in front of you" doesn't mean you'll literally do it. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Abyssal MawAnyhow, I'd say it's kind of a big deal, because it is illustrative of a much larger phenomenon.

A big deal? And illustrates what?

Let's assume again for the sake of the argument that you're right, and Luke Crane really thinks of himself as a rock star, that won't go to any con that doesn't provide him with big titted whores that he can use as tables to snort coke 100% Colombian, or some shit like that.

So what? Is your life going to be affected by that? Is your hobby going to suffer?

At the end of the day, he won't go to some cons and will go to anothers. And that's a problem of him, I can't see what it has to do with any other person's life.

The problem is that if he starts to get special treatment it's possible that others will want it, cons won't be able to afford it, and convention attendance will drop. If it drops too low the people and corporations that run the conventions will cut their losses and run.

Also, people tend to get upset when they've been told they're not as good as someone else. While that may not have been his intent with that post, it's pretty easy to read into it.

Quote from: James McMurrayNah, you're not honed in on the Indie mindset. Saying you're "literally going to take any sheets or tickets and throw them away in front of you" doesn't mean you'll literally do it. :rolleyes:

The use of the word literally not to mean literally is endemic, particularly in America.

I could literally kill him.

Seriously, he threw us out so fast we were literally flying.

I am literally hopping mad.

I see it all the time.  I think we can't know how it was meant here, it's different to Ron's thread where he went into some detail to say he was being literal in the proper sense, was not using metaphor and then had a follow up thread expressly not to apologise.

That's the trouble with that fucking brain damage thread.  Literally really is used heavily in ordinary conversation as an underlining word, not meant (ironically enough) literally.  I think many people nowadays don't actually know the literal meaning of literally.

But Ron uses it once correctly, a bunch of people defend him saying he didn't mean what he carefully explained he meant and once again it swamps into other things.

I'm so frustrated by the damage that fucking thread did to online discourse I am literally going to explode.

Quote from: James McMurrayThe problem is that if he starts to get special treatment it's possible that others will want it, cons won't be able to afford it, and convention attendance will drop. If it drops too low the people and corporations that run the conventions will cut their losses and run.

Also, people tend to get upset when they've been told they're not as good as someone else. While that may not have been his intent with that post, it's pretty easy to read into it.

If cons can't afford that, tehy won't provide it. Easy. And designers will keep or attending in some cases, and stop attending in others. And con attendance will keep on being the same, roughly, depending on many other, more important factors.

And if people get upset when they're told something, is their problem. If Ron Edwards or Gary Gygax or Monte Cook or whatever the fuck came to my house to tell me IN MY FACE that I suck at gaming, I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't get upset in the least.

Yes, sometimes literally doesn't mean literally, but one would hope that people in the publishing business would know how to use words clearly.

By the way, what game did this guy write?

Quote from: James McMurrayYes, sometimes literally doesn't mean literally, but one would hope that people in the publishing business would know how to use words clearly.

By the way, what game did this guy write?

Burning Wheel, a rather good Tolkeinian fantasy game albeit rather rules heavy.

Burning Empires, an sf game I know less about as the premise (used in the ordinary sense of that word) doesn't grab me particularly.

Certainly, one can simply ignore it when they're told they're not good enough, but that's rarely what happens. It's also detrimental because the elitist types who get to say things like that and get away with it are generally the types who could use a good swift kick in the metaphorical psychological butt (for their own good).

Quote from: BalbinusBut Ron uses it once correctly, a bunch of people defend him saying he didn't mean what he carefully explained he meant and once again it swamps into other things.

Yep. The explanation of Edwards is pretty clear.

So what?

Quote from: ImperatorYep. The explanation of Edwards is pretty clear.

So what?

In this particular case, I think the fact that Ron used the term literally and people said he didn't mean it that way is tarnishing Luke's use of it.

In other words, I think people are carrying baggage from Ron's posts that are causing them most likely to misinterpret Luke's posts.  That's the what.

On Burning Wheel by the way, I have read it and think it looks pretty good, I'm quite keen to play it.  I also found the GM advice useful and have applied some of it in my games so for me it was worth the money spent.  If Luke turned out to be a dick, which would surprise me from what I have heard of him, that wouldn't change the quality of his work.

Quote from: BalbinusI am literally hopping mad.

True fact: Once I got so mad I jumped up and down repeatedly.

Ah, BW. What little I've heard of it makes it sound like it's not for me, so if he doesn't attend cons it's going to have pretty much no effect on me.

Quote from: BalbinusIn other words, I think people are carrying baggage from Ron's posts that are causing them most likely to misinterpret Luke's posts.  That's the what.

No shock there.