Haha, imagine someone wanting to play strictly BtB AD&D...unforgiving as hell. I do remember a game where a player had to roll system shock for a spell,, 18 CON. He said something like, "Yeah whatever, only gonna fail on a 1." So of course he failed in dramatic fashion and poof, goodbye 9th level character. The hand of Gygax strikes again. 

Quote from: finarvyn on September 20, 2023, 08:24:19 AM
Remember that campaigns in the 1970's often tied adventure time to real world time. If constructing a magical item took 6 weeks then you wouldn't get it for six weeks on the actual calendar. That's why it was so important to keep track of time back then.

I'd assumed it was more because of one DM having a couple of different game groups. If Party A is four weeks away then Party B might already have looted half the dungeon by the time they get there.

Or players having a few different characters. "While Bob the Fighter is levelling up, I'll play his henchman Charlie the Magic-User. Now let's head back to the dungeon!"

If you've just got this little group of 3-6 players with just one character each, and you all politely and patiently wait while one of you is busy with non-adventuring stuff, then it won't be much of an issue. Of course, there's still the possibility that things happen in the world while you're faffing about. Like if you went into the caves and killed 50 goblins, probably the surviving 100 goblins will either move on, seek out allies or at least reset some traps and fortify their current place a bit. And the DM should at least mention that summer has gone through autumn and turned into winter, or something, at least for flavour.

So I wouldn't say strict time-keeping, but you do usually have to do some.

Quote from: Brad on October 01, 2023, 08:30:06 PM
Haha, imagine someone wanting to play strictly BtB AD&D...unforgiving as hell. I do remember a game where a player had to roll system shock for a spell,, 18 CON. He said something like, "Yeah whatever, only gonna fail on a 1." So of course he failed in dramatic fashion and poof, goodbye 9th level character. The hand of Gygax strikes again.

That sounds amazing.

Meticulous Time keeping?
Over the past 15 years I have been GMing? - Hell Yes!.

Thats because I run science fiction settings like TRAVELLER and the "Star Trek" universe. The default way to 'keep time' is military or European way of saying the ho9urs.

With "TRAVELLER' you gotta keep track of how much time you are in 'jump space' and then hoewlong it takes to get to local inhabeted planet.

Same story for "Star Trek" - there is a whole formula chart for how many days,weeks, or hours it will take at Wazrpo speed to get to the planet, starbase, or star system where the 'adventure' or mission is happening.

-Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 29, 2023, 11:52:26 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on September 28, 2023, 08:46:22 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 28, 2023, 06:47:50 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on September 22, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others. 

I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses.  It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to. 

I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.

I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.

Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options.  If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.

Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."

No, I just point out that the BroSR has never managed to make a single long-term campaign work.

I hate defending the BrOSR. But I have to point out Trollopolus lasted at least a year. And a sequel campaign that also lasted that long. To me I'd say that was long term. But if you can prove they were lying about this I'd be happy to see that. My Savage World patron campaign has only lasted six months but is still ongoing and I've also been running a Star Wars D6 real time campaign for around two months. And so far neither has run into game stopping problems. In fact, both campaigns have been some of the easiest and yet most fun I've had with TTRPGs in ages. In my first campaign I had to tweak some things on the fly which lead me to my always real time rule, as opposed to real time when play is not happening. I feel any kind of abstraction of time will lead to confusion.

I get that what I'm saying may sound weird to people who've played TTRPGs one way all their life. And I do intend to do a full write up of my experiences with real time campaigns when I get the time to. I ask for open minds for that. If anyone reads it and still doesn't get it. We can all just agree to disagree.

A year of how much play? In any case, in my definition, any campaign that lasts less than at least 2 years (or about 250 hours of play) is not going to reach the peak state of immersion that is the apex of RPG play.

I'm just going to have to acknowledge there's a generational gap between you and me and our definitions are different. I don't know anyone around me either in real life or on the internet who's able to run a consistent weekly game for more than a year. Or even six months. All kinds of things get in the way of that. Life, work, scheduling etc. Long running to me used to mean a year of weekly sessions. And until recently that was just not possible. I do notice people of older generations have more money and thus more time on their hands then someone like me will ever have. Your definition just isn't practical to anyone under the age of 45 who still has work and family commitments who is doing the normal kind of games. A lot of us don't even have weekends or at least don't have a regular 3 - 6 hour consistent stretch of time free from family and work.

One of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening. 

Quote from: Abraxus on September 25, 2023, 09:57:31 AM
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.

More like free advertising for wotc.

But yeah I've seen a few threads where idiots were "discussing" how to enforce 1 for 1 time in gameplay and it was some of the stupidest things ever. OSR seems to breed some new form of dumb every few years.

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2023, 09:54:30 AMOne of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.

Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.

I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.

Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.

Quote from: Omega on October 04, 2023, 05:55:26 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on September 25, 2023, 09:57:31 AM
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.

More like free advertising for wotc.

But yeah I've seen a few threads where idiots were "discussing" how to enforce 1 for 1 time in gameplay and it was some of the stupidest things ever. OSR seems to breed some new form of dumb every few years.

That's not the OSR. The BroSR is an Anti-OSR movement.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on October 04, 2023, 06:14:09 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2023, 09:54:30 AMOne of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.

Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.

I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.

Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.

That's only easy if you can guarantee that period of time where you have no other responsibilities. And have that time be consistently free. If you can't. It is much more convenient to have a fluid schedule where you can play when you are free.

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 05, 2023, 03:39:32 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on October 04, 2023, 06:14:09 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2023, 09:54:30 AMOne of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.

Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.

I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.

Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.

That's only easy if you can guarantee that period of time where you have no other responsibilities. And have that time be consistently free. If you can't. It is much more convenient to have a fluid schedule where you can play when you are free.

It's the other way around. If your schedule has a lot going on, to make sure you can make it, you have to carve out time and basically make appointments for everything. That means any leftover time's going to get quickly snapped up by other obligations. Usually this accompanies jobs like corporate ones where you know you have a steady 9-5 and the weeknight will be free, so you can carve out one night for D&D, but the rest will fill up with other stuff you have to book in advance as well.

Now there are some people who have jobs that can't be predicted schedule wise so easily, like people with music gigs or more physical jobs where things are decided on a day to day basis, in which case the fluid "play any day" option is better because you can just jump into it on a whim. Or if you're a college student and don't have a job anyway.

Quote from: RPGPundit on October 04, 2023, 05:38:56 PM

Quote from: Omega on October 04, 2023, 05:55:26 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on September 25, 2023, 09:57:31 AM
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.

More like free advertising for wotc.

But yeah I've seen a few threads where idiots were "discussing" how to enforce 1 for 1 time in gameplay and it was some of the stupidest things ever. OSR seems to breed some new form of dumb every few years.

That's not the OSR. The BroSR is an Anti-OSR movement.

Yeah but the OSR has discussed stuff like this before. And will again sooner or later.

Toss in people spreading misinformation "for fun" and its a train wreck. BroSR, or any of hate groups that exist just to fuck with people.

Quote from: Omega on October 05, 2023, 07:17:50 PM
Toss in people spreading misinformation "for fun" and its a train wreck. BroSR, or any of hate groups that exist just to fuck with people.

If you know of people spreading misinformation "for fun" please name names. If that sort of thing exists we should have a $hit list along the lines of the woke company post. Of course it would be very difficult to prove they weren't just wrong or stupid.

Quote from: Scooter on September 26, 2023, 03:02:22 PM

Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:39:14 AM
I don't care that much about accurate time because I don't do dungeon crawls

Time comes into play out side of dungeons.  Why the fuck would you think that time doesn't matter outside of a dungeon?

I like how you changed my statement from "accurate time" to "time". Gee, I wonder if there could be a reason why I chose the words that I did. If you're going to be a dishonest idiot, don't reply to my posts ever again.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on October 04, 2023, 06:14:09 AM

Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.

I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.

Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.

Why is it too much? Unless you are obsessive compulsive about having to be present for every single second of game play then you play when your schedule allows. I miss sessions sometimes and generally whole swaths of the campaign four months out of the year due to work. I stay in contact with the group and listen to what is happening but I don't demand everyone else stop playing until I can re-join. Remember we are talkiing about a GAME that is played for fun as time permits. While I do believe that one should try to make the commitment to play when possible, certain circumstances and real life will impact the campaign from time to time.