In my OSE (Old School Essentials) game we use time tools because that is in the rules and the players want to play my OSE game rules as written.  So we track time, we track torches (which Shadowdark did not come up with) and play my OSE game as written.

That's what my players want and enjoy playing that way.

I came into the video with skepticism. But I feel that ultimately the pundit did a very good job explaining how while timekeeping matters and can enhance many styles of game, setting, and gameplay overlap... There is no one way to handle timekeeping. Because it's more an art or a soft skill than a dogmatic single approach.

Quote from: GhostNinja on September 20, 2023, 02:07:00 PM
So we track time, we track torches.

We also track time where there are real in game consequences.  Like torches, spell duration, the day so spell caster have to sleep and renew spells and what not.  It doesn't take any real effort at that level.

Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 06:01:12 AM


The more I hear about this BrOSR crap, the more I wonder if it's just an elaborate ruse meant to attack legitimate RPGs in yet another way.

EDIT: To say nothing of stuff like C&S and Pendragon where "off screen" might be literally years, handwaved over a weekend.

It's EXPLICITLY an anti-OSR movement. They believe no version of D&D should be played other than AD&D1e "rules as interpreted by Jeffro".  So even though naive people think they're part of the OSR, and they constantly try to mingle with the OSR to recruit for their cult, their dream would be a world where every single OSR RPG ceased to exist.

Quote from: finarvyn on September 20, 2023, 08:24:19 AM
Remember that campaigns in the 1970's often tied adventure time to real world time. If constructing a magical item took 6 weeks then you wouldn't get it for six weeks on the actual calendar. That's why it was so important to keep track of time back then.

That's frequently claimed to be so, but having spoken to many people who played D&D both with Gygax and Arneson, none of them claim that was how the original campaigns were played.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM

Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 06:01:12 AM
So...did these dudes read that and decide it means something it really doesn't? Are they actually advocating for a 1-to-1 relationship at all times? This sort of thing makes sense in the context of D&D where you have a massive game world with 20+ players who all play at different times, and a DM running nightly sessions for whoever decides to show up. It makes zero fucking sense for a regular gaming group that meets weekly (or less). How would this sort of thing even work if you had to stop a session at the start/middle of a combat?

   The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:

   1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them.
   2. The traditional method of doing RPGs is Wrong and Does Not Work, and most of the products designed for such gaming are bad and not worth your money.

The first point is just idiotic.
The second claim was easy to test: which games make for longer, more successful campaigns? The BroSR's games constantly collapse, they've never been capable of keeping a campaign going for more than a couple of months. Hence, their own test of their theory proves it wrong.

Meanwhile, I'm on the 11th year of my Last Sun campaign. And it shows no sign of slowing down.

Quote from: Scooter on September 21, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
We also track time where there are real in game consequences.  Like torches, spell duration, the day so spell caster have to sleep and renew spells and what not.  It doesn't take any real effort at that level.

Yep.   I have a player who keeps track of the time.  The players enjoy it and the love how playing OSE RAW makes the game feel like D&D the way it was in the earlier days.

Would I do it with D&D or any other game?  No probably not.

I've tried all kinds of time tracking techniques and still use some of them.  The only real world time tracking I use is an egg timer for combat  Each player gets three minutes for their turn per round.  It's amazing how well everyone gets focused then.  (I don't always use it but I will break it out if it looks like people will indecisive or not pay attention.  Damn cell phones!)

Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
Each player gets three minutes for their turn per round. 

3 minutes each.  That's a LONG f'ing time.  I've never allowed more than 10 seconds to describe what they want to do in a given combat round after I've described the scene.

Quote from: Scooter on September 22, 2023, 11:03:50 AM

Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
Each player gets three minutes for their turn per round. 

3 minutes each.  That's a LONG f'ing time.  I've never allowed more than 10 seconds to describe what they want to do in a given combat round after I've described the scene.

I've never had anyone run out the clock.  I honestly don't know how long it would feel at the table.  I just find a little gentle pressure gets players better prepared and better organized.

Also, I frequently play with kids. 

Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 11:12:36 AM

Also, I frequently play with kids.

Kids are always handled differently.  If an adult can't decide in 10 seconds then the PC is standing there in indecision and can only defend.  The players soon learn to pay attention...

Quote from: Scooter on September 22, 2023, 11:14:51 AM

Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 11:12:36 AM

Also, I frequently play with kids.

Kids are always handled differently.  If an adult can't decide in 10 seconds then the PC is standing there in indecision and can only defend.  The players soon learn to pay attention...

Yep. The reward for not paying attention is combat paralysis for every round spent staring stupidly and asking what is going on. It usually only takes a single round of that to get someone to start being more attentive.

I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others. 

I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses.  It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to. 

I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.

I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.

Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options.  If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.

Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."

Tyranno seems to have a very weird way of playing. I'm actually kind of curious about it. That said, I think the video here if anything just says that if it works for your game and setting it works. Timekeeping is important when it's important, but not subject to any one dogmatic way. Which is why the BrOSR is sketchy in its current seeming insistences. I don't speak for Pundit. That said, from what I've seen, Pundit offers advice on how to play, and commentary on things within the hobby, but he doesn't cultivate a one-true-way methodology, and I think that's also apparent in how he produces his published content and says run it how you like and use it as just some more content/tools. Or how folks on this site have such different opinions on preferred play practices.

Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 10:03:17 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM
   The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:

   1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them.
   2. The traditional method of doing RPGs is Wrong and Does Not Work, and most of the products designed for such gaming are bad and not worth your money.

So they're just retards. Got it.

I agreed, I imagine the Bros plays like a RPG video game where the player just walks away and lets their avatar stand there for a week until they return.