A lot of social media posts are following a fad started by idiotic cultists, and don't understand the REAL reason for time-keeping in your game.
#dnd #ttrpg #osr
QuoteOne of the things stressed in the original game of D&D was the importance of recording game time with respect to each and every player character in a campaign. In AD&D it is emphasized even more: YOU CAN NOT HAVE A MEANINGFUL CAMPAIGN IF STRICT TIME RECORDS ARE NOT KEPT.
So...did these dudes read that and decide it means something it really doesn't? Are they actually advocating for a 1-to-1 relationship at all times? This sort of thing makes sense in the context of D&D where you have a massive game world with 20+ players who all play at different times, and a DM running nightly sessions for whoever decides to show up. It makes zero fucking sense for a regular gaming group that meets weekly (or less). How would this sort of thing even work if you had to stop a session at the start/middle of a combat?
The more I hear about this BrOSR crap, the more I wonder if it's just an elaborate ruse meant to attack legitimate RPGs in yet another way.
EDIT: To say nothing of stuff like C&S and Pendragon where "off screen" might be literally years, handwaved over a weekend.
Remember that campaigns in the 1970's often tied adventure time to real world time. If constructing a magical item took 6 weeks then you wouldn't get it for six weeks on the actual calendar. That's why it was so important to keep track of time back then.
Quote from: finarvyn on September 20, 2023, 08:24:19 AM
Remember that campaigns in the 1970's often tied adventure time to real world time. If constructing a magical item took 6 weeks then you wouldn't get it for six weeks on the actual calendar. That's why it was so important to keep track of time back then.
We, nor anyone else in our area ever played that way. Those would have been outliers. SOME people did the one to one time when NOT playing as advised in the DMG. NEVER saw anyone
not use game time during game time like you wrote.
Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 06:01:12 AM
So...did these dudes read that and decide it means something it really doesn't? Are they actually advocating for a 1-to-1 relationship at all times? This sort of thing makes sense in the context of D&D where you have a massive game world with 20+ players who all play at different times, and a DM running nightly sessions for whoever decides to show up. It makes zero fucking sense for a regular gaming group that meets weekly (or less). How would this sort of thing even work if you had to stop a session at the start/middle of a combat?
The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:
1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them.
2. The traditional method of doing RPGs is Wrong and Does Not Work, and most of the products designed for such gaming are bad and not worth your money.
This discussion about time keeping crossed my feed a bit on twitter and I was curious about it. I agree. I mean time keeping is important. There isn't one way to do it and really the different approaches all serve different needs. I have done 1-1 time and real world time, and the main reasons I would every do something like real world time would be 1) I have two groups in the same campaign and having real world time (i.e. a week between sessions is a week in the game world) makes it easier to keep track of players impact on the setting when they cross paths, 2) to create a sense of the surreal in the setting.
For 2, this is a point against using it for all your campaigns. I have a setting that is set in purgatory and I wanted things to feel 'off'. So I use real world time because I just found that in practice having it be the same time in the game as it is outside (regardless of how much time seems to have passed in the game) produces a weird feeling of things not quite being right and of being dreamlike.
In terms of strict time keeping. I think most people eyeball it, or they find a method that works for them. Or they take it on a case by case basis. I have been gaming since '86 and time keeping has been all over the map according to the style of the group. I tend to focus more on having a calendar where days are tracked and keeping the players informed about how much time has passed (and also having general rules for myself as GM for what that means (i.e. in this location, there is a chance of an encounter every X amount of time).
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM
The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:
1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them.
2. The traditional method of doing RPGs is Wrong and Does Not Work, and most of the products designed for such gaming are bad and not worth your money.
So they're just retards. Got it.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM
The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:
1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them....
That would lend a lot of credence to Brad's "elaborate trolling" theory. That contention is so impractical on its face that I have a hard time believing anyone has ever run a successful campaign that way.
Yeah, that's why I find things like the torches in Shadowdark so ..... I don't know how to say it.....just not that inventive.
No shade on Kelsey, but I get there's loads of gamers who are saying that type of thing in the next big thing.....when actually, the cycle is just coming back. Cause there's been a strict form of timekeeping in games in the past.
It's just not that new or inventive or game changing. And if the BrOSR want to play that way.....fine....I guess I'll keep playing wrong LOL
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 20, 2023, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM
The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:
1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them....
That would lend a lot of credence to Brad's "elaborate trolling" theory. That contention is so impractical on its face that I have a hard time believing anyone has ever run a successful campaign that way.
Most of my knowledge of this comes from disputes on Twitter and Bradford Walker's blog (http://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com) so it's possible I'm misinterpreting or misrepresenting it, but there is definitely an assumption that 'good play' involves ending in a safe zone to avoid this kind of issue.
This whole debate makes me wonder...
The DMG has rules for aging.
If you always play 1-to-1, most YOU AND YOUR PLAYERS will be dead before you ever get to play a venerable dwarf...
(yes, I know, unnatural aging, which also improves your wisdom. Makes perfect sense. ;) )
As far as personal experiences go, I've tried:
- Fast-forward for years and create heirs using Pendragon, which was fun.
- Real time ENCOUNTERS, and they worked really well in dungeons.
https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2022/04/real-time-dungeon-exploration.html
In addition, I've heard of working campaigns that used the "get back to town by the end of session or die" approach and seemed to work well enough. But I think this is a very specific play-style that cannot be generalized.
In short, I think these little mechancis are TOOLS to be used to improve campaigns, not commandments from Mount Sinai.
"The game is the thing, and certain rules can be distorted or disregarded altogether in favor of play."
Time is another tool in the box. I'm not entirely sure all of the time ideas are seriously pushed, either.
Some of the more arcane uses reminds me of the Dragon Quest rules for a healer regenerating a severed limb. The GM is instructed to measure the player's limb and use its length in the formula to determine how long the regeneration lasts. Never mind a game with horrible diseases that can require amputation and a critical hit system that can take the limb straight off. Then we go to heal the thing, and there is this bit of monkey business where the GM takes a tape measure to the player. It's all, "Ha Ha, Johan lost his left arm from the elbow down to the troll's axe. Now that we are back in town and Johan hasn't died, and you've paid the healer most of your silver, come over here Sean and let's see when you can get Johan back in play ." It's dark comedy.
People can do timekeeping in whatever way they feel is fun for them. I use timekeeping in a few different ways:
-during adventures, time is kept in turns (10 minutes) for exploration. This has little to do with time in the real world as it can go by in just a minute if they move their move rate and find nothing of interest or take a while in real time if they find something such as a door or area that they wish to search carefully for traps or something else. This is for tracking resources such as torches & oil, and also spell durations. It is also important to determine when a rest is needed.
- while in town doing whatever time is more freeform. How many hours do they want to spend shopping for gear, drinking in the tavern, sleeping, etc. Time is marked off for how much time is spent on these activities.
-overland travel is measured in days. Sometimes, many days of travel occur in a single game session.
The primary purpose of this time tracking is for resource management and to give context of player activity with everything else occuring in the game world. NPCs and other things are moving and doing things so knowing where the players are at what time determines how they may intersect.
Time in the real word has no bearing on any of this. If the campaign were an open one with several groups of players playing at different times then real world time might be considered, but play by a single group doesn't need to use real world time at all.
BrOSR whoever that fuck that is are trolling or they are morons. Reminds me of those idiots who tried to tell everyone they were rolling d% wrong. Hint: If nobody does it your way and someone must be labeled "wrong," it's you who is wrong.
In my OSE (Old School Essentials) game we use time tools because that is in the rules and the players want to play my OSE game rules as written. So we track time, we track torches (which Shadowdark did not come up with) and play my OSE game as written.
That's what my players want and enjoy playing that way.
I came into the video with skepticism. But I feel that ultimately the pundit did a very good job explaining how while timekeeping matters and can enhance many styles of game, setting, and gameplay overlap... There is no one way to handle timekeeping. Because it's more an art or a soft skill than a dogmatic single approach.
Quote from: GhostNinja on September 20, 2023, 02:07:00 PM
So we track time, we track torches.
We also track time where there are real in game consequences. Like torches, spell duration, the day so spell caster have to sleep and renew spells and what not. It doesn't take any real effort at that level.
Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 06:01:12 AM
The more I hear about this BrOSR crap, the more I wonder if it's just an elaborate ruse meant to attack legitimate RPGs in yet another way.
EDIT: To say nothing of stuff like C&S and Pendragon where "off screen" might be literally years, handwaved over a weekend.
It's EXPLICITLY an anti-OSR movement. They believe no version of D&D should be played other than AD&D1e "rules as interpreted by Jeffro". So even though naive people think they're part of the OSR, and they constantly try to mingle with the OSR to recruit for their cult, their dream would be a world where every single OSR RPG ceased to exist.
Quote from: finarvyn on September 20, 2023, 08:24:19 AM
Remember that campaigns in the 1970's often tied adventure time to real world time. If constructing a magical item took 6 weeks then you wouldn't get it for six weeks on the actual calendar. That's why it was so important to keep track of time back then.
That's frequently claimed to be so, but having spoken to many people who played D&D both with Gygax and Arneson, none of them claim that was how the original campaigns were played.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM
Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 06:01:12 AM
So...did these dudes read that and decide it means something it really doesn't? Are they actually advocating for a 1-to-1 relationship at all times? This sort of thing makes sense in the context of D&D where you have a massive game world with 20+ players who all play at different times, and a DM running nightly sessions for whoever decides to show up. It makes zero fucking sense for a regular gaming group that meets weekly (or less). How would this sort of thing even work if you had to stop a session at the start/middle of a combat?
The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:
1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them.
2. The traditional method of doing RPGs is Wrong and Does Not Work, and most of the products designed for such gaming are bad and not worth your money.
The first point is just idiotic.
The second claim was easy to test: which games make for longer, more successful campaigns? The BroSR's games constantly collapse, they've never been capable of keeping a campaign going for more than a couple of months. Hence, their own test of their theory proves it wrong.
Meanwhile, I'm on the 11th year of my Last Sun campaign. And it shows no sign of slowing down.
Quote from: Scooter on September 21, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
We also track time where there are real in game consequences. Like torches, spell duration, the day so spell caster have to sleep and renew spells and what not. It doesn't take any real effort at that level.
Yep. I have a player who keeps track of the time. The players enjoy it and the love how playing OSE RAW makes the game feel like D&D the way it was in the earlier days.
Would I do it with D&D or any other game? No probably not.
I've tried all kinds of time tracking techniques and still use some of them. The only real world time tracking I use is an egg timer for combat Each player gets three minutes for their turn per round. It's amazing how well everyone gets focused then. (I don't always use it but I will break it out if it looks like people will indecisive or not pay attention. Damn cell phones!)
Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
Each player gets three minutes for their turn per round.
3 minutes each. That's a LONG f'ing time. I've never allowed more than 10 seconds to describe what they want to do in a given combat round after I've described the scene.
Quote from: Scooter on September 22, 2023, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
Each player gets three minutes for their turn per round.
3 minutes each. That's a LONG f'ing time. I've never allowed more than 10 seconds to describe what they want to do in a given combat round after I've described the scene.
I've never had anyone run out the clock. I honestly don't know how long it would feel at the table. I just find a little gentle pressure gets players better prepared and better organized.
Also, I frequently play with kids.
Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 11:12:36 AM
Also, I frequently play with kids.
Kids are always handled differently. If an adult can't decide in 10 seconds then the PC is standing there in indecision and can only defend. The players soon learn to pay attention...
Quote from: Scooter on September 22, 2023, 11:14:51 AM
Quote from: BadApple on September 22, 2023, 11:12:36 AM
Also, I frequently play with kids.
Kids are always handled differently. If an adult can't decide in 10 seconds then the PC is standing there in indecision and can only defend. The players soon learn to pay attention...
Yep. The reward for not paying attention is combat paralysis for every round spent staring stupidly and asking what is going on. It usually only takes a single round of that to get someone to start being more attentive.
I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others.
I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses. It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to.
I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.
I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.
Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options. If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.
Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."
Tyranno seems to have a very weird way of playing. I'm actually kind of curious about it. That said, I think the video here if anything just says that if it works for your game and setting it works. Timekeeping is important when it's important, but not subject to any one dogmatic way. Which is why the BrOSR is sketchy in its current seeming insistences. I don't speak for Pundit. That said, from what I've seen, Pundit offers advice on how to play, and commentary on things within the hobby, but he doesn't cultivate a one-true-way methodology, and I think that's also apparent in how he produces his published content and says run it how you like and use it as just some more content/tools. Or how folks on this site have such different opinions on preferred play practices.
Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 10:03:17 AM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 20, 2023, 08:31:43 AM
The contention of the most vocal elements of the BrOSR is that:
1. You never 'freeze time'--if the PCs don't make it back to home base by end of session, then so much the worse for them.
2. The traditional method of doing RPGs is Wrong and Does Not Work, and most of the products designed for such gaming are bad and not worth your money.
So they're just retards. Got it.
I agreed, I imagine the Bros plays like a RPG video game where the player just walks away and lets their avatar stand there for a week until they return.
Quote from: GhostNinja on September 22, 2023, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: Scooter on September 21, 2023, 05:52:33 PM
We also track time where there are real in game consequences. Like torches, spell duration, the day so spell caster have to sleep and renew spells and what not. It doesn't take any real effort at that level.
Yep. I have a player who keeps track of the time. The players enjoy it and the love how playing OSE RAW makes the game feel like D&D the way it was in the earlier days.
Would I do it with D&D or any other game? No probably not.
You do know that OSE IS D&D, right? Just an earlier version of it with better organization.
Quote from: Brad on September 20, 2023, 06:01:12 AM
So...did these dudes read that and decide it means something it really doesn't? Are they actually advocating for a 1-to-1 relationship at all times?
Yes they are. Its been pushed now and then.
But from what I have seen it mostly died out as anyone with two brain cells to rub together saw it was a moronic thing to try and impose.
1 to 1 time is not for everyone but most people here misunderstand it.
The point is that you make it a "living world" where you advance time OUTSIDE THE SESSION every day. During the session, you play D&D like normal, you timeskip over tedious segments, etc. But once the game is over, you advance the clock each day, by whatever segment you want -- it could be a day for a day, a week for a day, etc. This creates a sense of life in the world and lets long term projects exist as a factor in the game.
Usually games like this are suited to open table MMO style games where multiple tables are playing in the same setting, so you can keep it all straight and people can do stuff while they aren't in an actual session. But you can also do it for a single table group for sessions that don't need to be back to back in game-time so that you get to see characters get older and advance through life, instead of it being like most modern campaigns where it plays out like an episode of 24.
Slightly different topic on time. Shadowdark uses real time for certain things like torches, which people praised in reviews, but seems wonky to me. Is combat done in real time as well? If not how do you account for that regarding torches? Has anyone tried it?
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on September 24, 2023, 02:47:09 AM
1 to 1 time is not for everyone but most people here misunderstand it.
The point is that you make it a "living world" where you advance time OUTSIDE THE SESSION every day. During the session, you play D&D like normal,
This isn't what the idiots are pushing
I have the weekend free and I ventured out to check out the game stores in my city. Several had games running, most of which were D&D type. Nobody I saw amoungst the sixty or so gamers playing was using this strict timekeeping.
I think that this is just another internet only fad that doesn't reach the Real World.
My one experience with trying to play with timekeeping was in "Stars Without Number". True to oldschool style, we had maybe 20 players and multiple GMs who would take groups on quests through space. I liked the campaign concept, I appreciate the GMs' work, and I had fun. But the time mechanic did cause problems. In particular, spaceflight even with the setting's FTL rules took at least several days to get to another star system. In my character's final series of adventures, his voyage dragged on for real-time months because we went to multiple stars and had no opportunity to get to our HQ and there was other dithering. So we missed out on some roleplay opportunities at the HQ area and were locked out of going on any other adventures while we waited for the current one to resolve.
Our server also tried using the trading rules from that game. Those are great in their own right, but work poorly with a large group. A few of us made a huge profit but again, had to miss out on any interaction with other players for long periods because we were in transit. In a smaller group we'd have done a quick roleplay session about the trade, resolved any random disasters, and mostly skipped over the travel time. (And then we were so rich we were massively out of line with the other PCs.) We also had no real opportunity to use parts of the trade system that can shine in a longer game: the parts about building a colony or corporate base, where faction turns take a month of game time.
I have my problems with Paizo but I did like what they did with Pathfinder (1E)'s "Pathfinder Society Organized Play". Can't show up this week? It's fine; in universe your PC is part of an adventurer guild and he's busy.
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 24, 2023, 06:14:54 PM
I have the weekend free and I ventured out to check out the game stores in my city. Several had games running, most of which were D&D type. Nobody I saw amoungst the sixty or so gamers playing was using this strict timekeeping.
I think that this is just another internet only fad that doesn't reach the Real World.
As far as I can tell, the BrOSR is a couple dozen campaigns and a group of posters on Twitter. Outside of that, I expect there's some presence but overall, it's a drop in the water that we only notice because both the proponents and the critics have extremely large and vocal online egos. :)
Quote from: Ruprecht on September 24, 2023, 08:50:39 AM
Slightly different topic on time. Shadowdark uses real time for certain things like torches, which people praised in reviews, but seems wonky to me. Is combat done in real time as well? If not how do you account for that regarding torches? Has anyone tried it?
Sounds ruthlessly stupid.
Delete please. Weird double posting
Quote from: Persimmon on September 23, 2023, 04:24:37 PM
You do know that OSE IS D&D, right? Just an earlier version of it with better organization.
Yes, I am aware that it is the D&D B/X rules cleaned up and the rules made more clear. I also have a copy of the actual B/X books and OSE does a much better job explaining things.
When I said I wouldn't do it with D&D I meant 5e which is something I am also running.
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 24, 2023, 06:14:54 PM
I have the weekend free and I ventured out to check out the game stores in my city. Several had games running, most of which were D&D type. Nobody I saw amoungst the sixty or so gamers playing was using this strict timekeeping.
I think that this is just another internet only fad that doesn't reach the Real World.
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.
I don't care that much about accurate time because I don't do dungeon crawls and resource expenditure isn't a significant part of the gameplay. I only need to know what various characters are trying to do, and how long it will probably take them to accomplish.
Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:39:14 AM
I don't care that much about accurate time because I don't do dungeon crawls
Time comes into play out side of dungeons. Why the fuck would you think that time doesn't matter outside of a dungeon?
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 22, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others.
I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses. It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to.
I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.
I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.
Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options. If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.
Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."
No, I just point out that the BroSR has never managed to make a single long-term campaign work.
Quote from: RPGPundit on September 28, 2023, 06:47:50 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 22, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others.
I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses. It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to.
I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.
I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.
Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options. If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.
Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."
No, I just point out that the BroSR has never managed to make a single long-term campaign work.
I hate defending the BrOSR. But I have to point out Trollopolus lasted at least a year. And a sequel campaign that also lasted that long. To me I'd say that was long term. But if you can prove they were lying about this I'd be happy to see that. My Savage World patron campaign has only lasted six months but is still ongoing and I've also been running a Star Wars D6 real time campaign for around two months. And so far neither has run into game stopping problems. In fact, both campaigns have been some of the easiest and yet most fun I've had with TTRPGs in ages. In my first campaign I had to tweak some things on the fly which lead me to my always real time rule, as opposed to real time when play is not happening. I feel any kind of abstraction of time will lead to confusion.
I get that what I'm saying may sound weird to people who've played TTRPGs one way all their life. And I do intend to do a full write up of my experiences with real time campaigns when I get the time to. I ask for open minds for that. If anyone reads it and still doesn't get it. We can all just agree to disagree.
Yeah I dunno where you are getting the idea that the campaigns didn't last long. All the ones I've seen them talk about lasted a long while, if not still going.
Quote from: KrisSnow on September 24, 2023, 06:58:13 PM
But the time mechanic did cause problems. In particular, spaceflight even with the setting's FTL rules took at least several days to get to another star system. In my character's final series of adventures, his voyage dragged on for real-time months because we went to multiple stars and had no opportunity to get to our HQ and there was other dithering. So we missed out on some roleplay opportunities at the HQ area and were locked out of going on any other adventures while we waited for the current one to resolve.
Hell, this might be one of the *best* examples of it being workable and good at an open table type game. I can see how it would be annoying from a player perspective if you can only have a single character, but if you're running trades between players it seems like the only fair way to do it if you have a rotating cast of 20+ players. Would ratchet up the competition between groups of players to get the best deals or act on hooks before everyone else could, much like the old Lake Geneva tables.
Quote from: shoplifter on September 28, 2023, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: KrisSnow on September 24, 2023, 06:58:13 PM
But the time mechanic did cause problems. In particular, spaceflight even with the setting's FTL rules took at least several days to get to another star system. In my character's final series of adventures, his voyage dragged on for real-time months because we went to multiple stars and had no opportunity to get to our HQ and there was other dithering. So we missed out on some roleplay opportunities at the HQ area and were locked out of going on any other adventures while we waited for the current one to resolve.
Hell, this might be one of the *best* examples of it being workable and good at an open table type game. I can see how it would be annoying from a player perspective if you can only have a single character, but if you're running trades between players it seems like the only fair way to do it if you have a rotating cast of 20+ players. Would ratchet up the competition between groups of players to get the best deals or act on hooks before everyone else could, much like the old Lake Geneva tables.
People have been saying you need multiple PCs per player for years now. It's one of the first things detractors like to ignore when they criticize Real time patron play. They always bring up this idea that players just have to wait long periods of time or need an insane amount of players. When I and others have always said it's not a problem because you can just make new characters and rotate them in and out of games dependent on location. So even if you just have one group as is the case with my campaign you still have multiple parties affecting this dynamic sandbox world. And you never just wait around. Or at the most you wait around as much as you would for your standard weekly session.
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 29, 2023, 08:03:03 AM
People have been saying you need multiple PCs per player for years now. It's one of the first things detractors like to ignore when they criticize Real time patron play. They always bring up this idea that players just have to wait long periods of time or need an insane amount of players. When I and others have always said it's not a problem because you can just make new characters and rotate them in and out of games dependent on location. So even if you just have one group as is the case with my campaign you still have multiple parties affecting this dynamic sandbox world. And you never just wait around. Or at the most you wait around as much as you would for your standard weekly session.
In any campaign where there are players with PCs who want to engage in long term activities that sideline their characters for significant amounts of game time it is a good idea to have multiple characters per player so there are always characters that can adventure while the others are completing their activities.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 29, 2023, 11:15:25 AM
In any campaign where there are players with PCs who want to engage in long term activities that sideline their characters for significant amounts of game time it is a good idea to have multiple characters per player so there are always characters that can adventure while the others are completing their activities.
If I allow it I let them use a lower level NPC. But the absence has to be for a good reason that will benefit the party as a whole somehow.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 29, 2023, 11:15:25 AM
In any campaign where there are players with PCs who want to engage in long term activities that sideline their characters for significant amounts of game time it is a good idea to have multiple characters per player so there are always characters that can adventure while the others are completing their activities.
Literally the only way you can facilitate spell research or magic item creation if you use RAW in most systems due to the amount of downtime it causes. Works great if you look at the group in the same sense Ars Magica does.
Quote from: Scooter on September 29, 2023, 11:18:04 AM
If I allow it I let them use a lower level NPC. But the absence has to be for a good reason that will benefit the party as a whole somehow.
I don't like to restrict what a player wants their character to attempt. So if a player wants their magic user to do 3-4 months of spell research they are free to do so. The world, however, does not stop turning while they do this. That character is simply not available for play until the campaign timeline catches up with the end of the activity. In the meantime, the player is free to roll another character to continue playing. Once it sinks in that the rest of the original party is going to keep adventuring and earning XP while their main character isn't, the player will often abandon the activity fearing getting too far behind the others in XP. So pretty much if the world doesn't stop for them then the player ends up not wanting to do these activities. No need to forbid anything at all.
error
Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 29, 2023, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: Scooter on September 29, 2023, 11:18:04 AM
If I allow it I let them use a lower level NPC. But the absence has to be for a good reason that will benefit the party as a whole somehow.
I don't like to restrict what a player wants their character to attempt.
I don't. I just restrict multiple PCs per player. If a player wants to take his PC out of play for a year it is on them.
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 28, 2023, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on September 28, 2023, 06:47:50 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 22, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others.
I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses. It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to.
I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.
I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.
Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options. If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.
Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."
No, I just point out that the BroSR has never managed to make a single long-term campaign work.
I hate defending the BrOSR. But I have to point out Trollopolus lasted at least a year. And a sequel campaign that also lasted that long. To me I'd say that was long term. But if you can prove they were lying about this I'd be happy to see that. My Savage World patron campaign has only lasted six months but is still ongoing and I've also been running a Star Wars D6 real time campaign for around two months. And so far neither has run into game stopping problems. In fact, both campaigns have been some of the easiest and yet most fun I've had with TTRPGs in ages. In my first campaign I had to tweak some things on the fly which lead me to my always real time rule, as opposed to real time when play is not happening. I feel any kind of abstraction of time will lead to confusion.
I get that what I'm saying may sound weird to people who've played TTRPGs one way all their life. And I do intend to do a full write up of my experiences with real time campaigns when I get the time to. I ask for open minds for that. If anyone reads it and still doesn't get it. We can all just agree to disagree.
A year of how much play? In any case, in my definition, any campaign that lasts less than at least 2 years (or about 250 hours of play) is not going to reach the peak state of immersion that is the apex of RPG play.
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 29, 2023, 08:03:03 AM
Quote from: shoplifter on September 28, 2023, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: KrisSnow on September 24, 2023, 06:58:13 PM
But the time mechanic did cause problems. In particular, spaceflight even with the setting's FTL rules took at least several days to get to another star system. In my character's final series of adventures, his voyage dragged on for real-time months because we went to multiple stars and had no opportunity to get to our HQ and there was other dithering. So we missed out on some roleplay opportunities at the HQ area and were locked out of going on any other adventures while we waited for the current one to resolve.
Hell, this might be one of the *best* examples of it being workable and good at an open table type game. I can see how it would be annoying from a player perspective if you can only have a single character, but if you're running trades between players it seems like the only fair way to do it if you have a rotating cast of 20+ players. Would ratchet up the competition between groups of players to get the best deals or act on hooks before everyone else could, much like the old Lake Geneva tables.
People have been saying you need multiple PCs per player for years now. It's one of the first things detractors like to ignore when they criticize Real time patron play. They always bring up this idea that players just have to wait long periods of time or need an insane amount of players. When I and others have always said it's not a problem because you can just make new characters and rotate them in and out of games dependent on location. So even if you just have one group as is the case with my campaign you still have multiple parties affecting this dynamic sandbox world. And you never just wait around. Or at the most you wait around as much as you would for your standard weekly session.
Most of my Lion & Dragon campaigns have multiple PCs per player, and there's nothing in that which requires the arbitrary notion of playing in real-time.
Quote from: Eric Diaz on September 20, 2023, 11:25:19 AM
This whole debate makes me wonder...
The DMG has rules for aging.
If you always play 1-to-1, most YOU AND YOUR PLAYERS will be dead before you ever get to play a venerable dwarf...
(yes, I know, unnatural aging, which also improves your wisdom. Makes perfect sense. ;) )
Unnatural aging is another rule in AD&DS 1E which makes certain undead terrifying (ghosts -- aging 10-40 years per touch plus 10 years on sight) and makes certain spells silly to cast (that haste spell almost needs to be saving your life; gate was already incredibly reckless but now add in 5 years of aging).
Well, except for the elves in the party . . .
Quote from: Votan on September 30, 2023, 12:11:33 AM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on September 20, 2023, 11:25:19 AM
This whole debate makes me wonder...
The DMG has rules for aging.
If you always play 1-to-1, most YOU AND YOUR PLAYERS will be dead before you ever get to play a venerable dwarf...
(yes, I know, unnatural aging, which also improves your wisdom. Makes perfect sense. ;) )
Unnatural aging is another rule in AD&DS 1E which makes certain undead terrifying (ghosts -- aging 10-40 years per touch plus 10 years on sight) and makes certain spells silly to cast (that haste spell almost needs to be saving your life; gate was already incredibly reckless but now add in 5 years of aging).
Well, except for the elves in the party . . .
Its still bad for the elves, iirc any magical aging causes system shock.
Quote from: Slambo on September 30, 2023, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: Votan on September 30, 2023, 12:11:33 AM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on September 20, 2023, 11:25:19 AM
This whole debate makes me wonder...
The DMG has rules for aging.
If you always play 1-to-1, most YOU AND YOUR PLAYERS will be dead before you ever get to play a venerable dwarf...
(yes, I know, unnatural aging, which also improves your wisdom. Makes perfect sense. ;) )
Unnatural aging is another rule in AD&DS 1E which makes certain undead terrifying (ghosts -- aging 10-40 years per touch plus 10 years on sight) and makes certain spells silly to cast (that haste spell almost needs to be saving your life; gate was already incredibly reckless but now add in 5 years of aging).
Well, except for the elves in the party . . .
Its still bad for the elves, iirc any magical aging causes system shock.
Yikes. Makes Haste/Potion of Speed seem even more insanely dangerous. And, yes, this is hiding right there under constitution, with a 10 Con having a 70% death rate.
Add in this rule and we can forget the vampires; it's the ghosts who are the scary undead. A failed save and a single blow would be 2 system shock rolls and 20-50 years aging. A 20 year could die of old age. And there are very limited options for reversing aging in AD&D.
Haha, imagine someone wanting to play strictly BtB AD&D...unforgiving as hell. I do remember a game where a player had to roll system shock for a spell,, 18 CON. He said something like, "Yeah whatever, only gonna fail on a 1." So of course he failed in dramatic fashion and poof, goodbye 9th level character. The hand of Gygax strikes again.
Quote from: finarvyn on September 20, 2023, 08:24:19 AM
Remember that campaigns in the 1970's often tied adventure time to real world time. If constructing a magical item took 6 weeks then you wouldn't get it for six weeks on the actual calendar. That's why it was so important to keep track of time back then.
I'd assumed it was more because of one DM having a couple of different game groups. If Party A is four weeks away then Party B might already have looted half the dungeon by the time they get there.
Or players having a few different characters. "While Bob the Fighter is levelling up, I'll play his henchman Charlie the Magic-User. Now let's head back to the dungeon!"
If you've just got this little group of 3-6 players with just one character each, and you all politely and patiently wait while one of you is busy with non-adventuring stuff, then it won't be much of an issue. Of course, there's still the possibility that things happen in the world while you're faffing about. Like if you went into the caves and killed 50 goblins,
probably the surviving 100 goblins will either move on, seek out allies or at least reset some traps and fortify their current place a bit. And the DM should at least mention that summer has gone through autumn and turned into winter, or something, at least for flavour.
So I wouldn't say
strict time-keeping, but you do usually have to do
some.
Quote from: Brad on October 01, 2023, 08:30:06 PM
Haha, imagine someone wanting to play strictly BtB AD&D...unforgiving as hell. I do remember a game where a player had to roll system shock for a spell,, 18 CON. He said something like, "Yeah whatever, only gonna fail on a 1." So of course he failed in dramatic fashion and poof, goodbye 9th level character. The hand of Gygax strikes again.
That sounds amazing.
Meticulous Time keeping?
Over the past 15 years I have been GMing? - Hell Yes!.
Thats because I run science fiction settings like TRAVELLER and the "Star Trek" universe. The default way to 'keep time' is military or European way of saying the ho9urs.
With "TRAVELLER' you gotta keep track of how much time you are in 'jump space' and then hoewlong it takes to get to local inhabeted planet.
Same story for "Star Trek" - there is a whole formula chart for how many days,weeks, or hours it will take at Wazrpo speed to get to the planet, starbase, or star system where the 'adventure' or mission is happening.
-Ed C.
Quote from: RPGPundit on September 29, 2023, 11:52:26 PM
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 28, 2023, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on September 28, 2023, 06:47:50 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on September 22, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
I'm really not a fan of the way the BrOSR carry themselves. I have to be honest with you though Pundit. You've been guilty of this same behaviour of declaring your way is the only correct way and dismissing all others.
I wouldn't call a 1:1 real time with patron play game a "fad". But I wouldn't call it "Strict timekeeping" either. Because it really isn't all that strict. It's just time. It progresses. It's just one more way to play your games. If you don't want to play it you don't have to.
I've now got two ongoing games using 1:1 time. Both with different rulesets. I know you're probably going to dismiss whatever I say. But I am speaking from experience. Not just nice ideas in my head. I've had to change things up a bit from the BrOSR stuff I've seen. But not much.
I think people are really scared that the timekeeping will in some way be hard to manage or ruin the game. It doesn't. But people who don't ever want to try it out assume it will and won't listen to people like me with the experience to say it's much less complicated than you make out. Just understand from the minute the game world "starts" that time progresses in real time without pauses or rewinds. It's not complicated so long as you note where various groups are and how long it's taking them to travel from A to B.
Most hexcrawl campaigns already establish that one hex = x miles or km. From that it's not hard to establish how long it will take to walk from one place to another. And how worth it it is to walk that distance. I just set alarms on my phone or Computer. If groups intersect on the map, they meet up. If not, they don't. And may never meet. If someone doesn't turn up to a session, they message me to say what they're doing. If they don't, they do nothing and stay put until they do message me. (I've never had a player just idle and starve to death by the way. At worst a player wanted to leave the game so he retired his character.) It's really not hard to keep an eye on a clock and go "hmm, we've been in this dungeon for 4 hours. We should head back and rest.". 10 real time seconds per round to say an action. And then Actions are done in a second or however long it takes me to describe the action. If for whatever bizarre and very rare reason a party decides to take longer than a couple of weeks to trek from one place to another, or is otherwise occupied for large periods of time roll up some new characters. Now one group of players has become multiple different parties in a dynamic sandbox world with lots of events happening even when the sessions are over. It's pretty cool and gives you options. If you can manage time effectively in the real world you can GM a real time game.
Now this is the part where you tell me all the worst case scenarios that never actually happen in order to "prove me wrong."
No, I just point out that the BroSR has never managed to make a single long-term campaign work.
I hate defending the BrOSR. But I have to point out Trollopolus lasted at least a year. And a sequel campaign that also lasted that long. To me I'd say that was long term. But if you can prove they were lying about this I'd be happy to see that. My Savage World patron campaign has only lasted six months but is still ongoing and I've also been running a Star Wars D6 real time campaign for around two months. And so far neither has run into game stopping problems. In fact, both campaigns have been some of the easiest and yet most fun I've had with TTRPGs in ages. In my first campaign I had to tweak some things on the fly which lead me to my always real time rule, as opposed to real time when play is not happening. I feel any kind of abstraction of time will lead to confusion.
I get that what I'm saying may sound weird to people who've played TTRPGs one way all their life. And I do intend to do a full write up of my experiences with real time campaigns when I get the time to. I ask for open minds for that. If anyone reads it and still doesn't get it. We can all just agree to disagree.
A year of how much play? In any case, in my definition, any campaign that lasts less than at least 2 years (or about 250 hours of play) is not going to reach the peak state of immersion that is the apex of RPG play.
I'm just going to have to acknowledge there's a generational gap between you and me and our definitions are different. I don't know anyone around me either in real life or on the internet who's able to run a consistent weekly game for more than a year. Or even six months. All kinds of things get in the way of that. Life, work, scheduling etc. Long running to me used to mean a year of weekly sessions. And until recently that was just not possible. I do notice people of older generations have more money and thus more time on their hands then someone like me will ever have. Your definition just isn't practical to anyone under the age of 45 who still has work and family commitments who is doing the normal kind of games. A lot of us don't even have weekends or at least don't have a regular 3 - 6 hour consistent stretch of time free from family and work.
One of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.
Quote from: Abraxus on September 25, 2023, 09:57:31 AM
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.
More like free advertising for wotc.
But yeah I've seen a few threads where idiots were "discussing" how to enforce 1 for 1 time in gameplay and it was some of the stupidest things ever. OSR seems to breed some new form of dumb every few years.
Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2023, 09:54:30 AMOne of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.
Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.
I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.
Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.
Quote from: Omega on October 04, 2023, 05:55:26 AM
Quote from: Abraxus on September 25, 2023, 09:57:31 AM
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.
More like free advertising for wotc.
But yeah I've seen a few threads where idiots were "discussing" how to enforce 1 for 1 time in gameplay and it was some of the stupidest things ever. OSR seems to breed some new form of dumb every few years.
That's not the OSR. The BroSR is an Anti-OSR movement.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on October 04, 2023, 06:14:09 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2023, 09:54:30 AMOne of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.
Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.
I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.
Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.
That's only easy if you can guarantee that period of time where you have no other responsibilities. And have that time be consistently free. If you can't. It is much more convenient to have a fluid schedule where you can play when you are free.
Quote from: King Tyranno on October 05, 2023, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on October 04, 2023, 06:14:09 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2023, 09:54:30 AMOne of the great advantages of a Real time with patron play game is the fluid scheduling and ability for players to drop in and out. Both my current games have the potential to last years because we can all plan our travel and activities around other people's schedules. And the sessions themselves are much shorter. We can get a full session of dungeon crawling done in four hours on Saturday. Have the party travel back to the nearest village, rest and regroup ready to explore more of the dungeon on the following Thursday. If someone can't make a session for a long period of time they can still message me and do their own thing until they can. Maybe they train for a month? or go on a solo adventure when they and I have free time. It's fluid and easy to schedule around everyone with very little compromise. So you don't end up with people leaving the game because one or two people left causing a domino effect that sabotages the whole game all because of scheduling. And people can drop in all across the world to have their own adventures. Existing and participating simultaneously in a world that persists even when sessions aren't happening.
Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.
I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.
Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.
That's only easy if you can guarantee that period of time where you have no other responsibilities. And have that time be consistently free. If you can't. It is much more convenient to have a fluid schedule where you can play when you are free.
It's the other way around. If your schedule has a lot going on, to make sure you can make it, you have to carve out time and basically make appointments for everything. That means any leftover time's going to get quickly snapped up by other obligations. Usually this accompanies jobs like corporate ones where you know you have a steady 9-5 and the weeknight will be free, so you can carve out one night for D&D, but the rest will fill up with other stuff you have to book in advance as well.
Now there are some people who have jobs that can't be predicted schedule wise so easily, like people with music gigs or more physical jobs where things are decided on a day to day basis, in which case the fluid "play any day" option is better because you can just jump into it on a whim. Or if you're a college student and don't have a job anyway.
Quote from: RPGPundit on October 04, 2023, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: Omega on October 04, 2023, 05:55:26 AM
Quote from: Abraxus on September 25, 2023, 09:57:31 AM
I think it's Pundit as usual bring the equivalent of a Schlock Radio personality blowing something completely out of proportion to get more clicks and views.
More like free advertising for wotc.
But yeah I've seen a few threads where idiots were "discussing" how to enforce 1 for 1 time in gameplay and it was some of the stupidest things ever. OSR seems to breed some new form of dumb every few years.
That's not the OSR. The BroSR is an Anti-OSR movement.
Yeah but the OSR has discussed stuff like this before. And will again sooner or later.
Toss in people spreading misinformation "for fun" and its a train wreck. BroSR, or any of hate groups that exist just to fuck with people.
Quote from: Omega on October 05, 2023, 07:17:50 PM
Toss in people spreading misinformation "for fun" and its a train wreck. BroSR, or any of hate groups that exist just to fuck with people.
If you know of people spreading misinformation "for fun" please name names. If that sort of thing exists we should have a $hit list along the lines of the woke company post. Of course it would be very difficult to prove they weren't just wrong or stupid.
Quote from: Scooter on September 26, 2023, 03:02:22 PM
Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:39:14 AM
I don't care that much about accurate time because I don't do dungeon crawls
Time comes into play out side of dungeons. Why the fuck would you think that time doesn't matter outside of a dungeon?
I like how you changed my statement from "accurate time" to "time". Gee, I wonder if there could be a reason why I chose the words that I did. If you're going to be a dishonest idiot, don't reply to my posts ever again.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on October 04, 2023, 06:14:09 AM
Even that is too much for some people with the time they have.
I run a game like this and a few players quit because they couldn't handle the fact that the game was "always on" and something they had to always be plugged into, even if it was outside of a session.
Having the traditional 4 hours every 2 weeks type of session makes it easy to carve it out into your calendar and forget about.
Why is it too much? Unless you are obsessive compulsive about having to be present for every single second of game play then you play when your schedule allows. I miss sessions sometimes and generally whole swaths of the campaign four months out of the year due to work. I stay in contact with the group and listen to what is happening but I don't demand everyone else stop playing until I can re-join. Remember we are talkiing about a GAME that is played for fun as time permits. While I do believe that one should try to make the commitment to play when possible, certain circumstances and real life will impact the campaign from time to time.