Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2024, 06:07:43 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 07:28:22 AMThey have similar things like "add 1d8 feet to each long or high jump you make" or "proficient in stealth and squeeze as a small creature" or "advantage on perception checks" or similar that reflect innate racial traits in arguably more interesting ways than +2 Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom does.

I do not recall any race getting that in 5e?

The jump thing is from the rabbit race i dont remmeber where it was introduced though.

Quote from: Slambo on July 18, 2024, 07:47:16 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2024, 06:07:43 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 07:28:22 AMThey have similar things like "add 1d8 feet to each long or high jump you make" or "proficient in stealth and squeeze as a small creature" or "advantage on perception checks" or similar that reflect innate racial traits in arguably more interesting ways than +2 Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom does.

I do not recall any race getting that in 5e?

The jump thing is from the rabbit race i dont remmeber where it was introduced though.

Harengon get a bonus action jump that's 5 times their proficiency bonus.

Quote from: Shalashashka on July 18, 2024, 10:01:25 PM

Quote from: Slambo on July 18, 2024, 07:47:16 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2024, 06:07:43 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 07:28:22 AMThey have similar things like "add 1d8 feet to each long or high jump you make" or "proficient in stealth and squeeze as a small creature" or "advantage on perception checks" or similar that reflect innate racial traits in arguably more interesting ways than +2 Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom does.

I do not recall any race getting that in 5e?

The jump thing is from the rabbit race i dont remmeber where it was introduced though.

Harengon get a bonus action jump that's 5 times their proficiency bonus.

Actually I was thinking of the Satyr.

Mirthful Leaps. Whenever you make a long jump or a high jump, you can roll a d8 and add the number rolled to the number of feet you cover, even when making a standing jump. This extra distance costs movement as normal. ~ Monsters of the Multiverse, p. 29.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on July 17, 2024, 05:52:07 PMBoth of your reasons are why I have some randomness options in my games--even though the players main character is pretty much whatever they want.  I want some interesting races.  I want some cat people or wolf people or whatever.  However, I've found that a player that is perfectly OK with playing a random human will also not exhibit any of those annoying behaviors you mention.  It's a filter that lets me flirt with what would otherwise be risky, without really risking very much.  Of course, the other, greater filter is only playing with your friends or people closely vetted. 

There's a positive side to this, not just a filter. Generally, a person willing to play the random human will probably do a pretty good job with any of the other options.

I've seen that to a limited extent in the couple of WFRP campaigns I got to play in. In 4th edition at least, you get an XP bonus at character creation if you choose to random roll certain elements of your character (one of which is race). In general, I think there's a psychological phenomenon where randomization of elements of the character produce better roleplaying, because the player gets handed elements they didn't plan on and are forced to think about what kind of person they're building in more detail.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 11:10:57 PM

Quote from: Shalashashka on July 18, 2024, 10:01:25 PM

Quote from: Slambo on July 18, 2024, 07:47:16 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2024, 06:07:43 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 07:28:22 AMThey have similar things like "add 1d8 feet to each long or high jump you make" or "proficient in stealth and squeeze as a small creature" or "advantage on perception checks" or similar that reflect innate racial traits in arguably more interesting ways than +2 Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom does.

I do not recall any race getting that in 5e?

The jump thing is from the rabbit race i dont remmeber where it was introduced though.

Harengon get a bonus action jump that's 5 times their proficiency bonus.

Actually I was thinking of the Satyr.

Mirthful Leaps. Whenever you make a long jump or a high jump, you can roll a d8 and add the number rolled to the number of feet you cover, even when making a standing jump. This extra distance costs movement as normal. ~ Monsters of the Multiverse, p. 29.

ahhh. Totally misread the initial comment. Thought you had meant ALL not-human races got some sort of blanket bonus ability.

Quote from: Omega on July 19, 2024, 06:42:55 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 11:10:57 PM

Quote from: Shalashashka on July 18, 2024, 10:01:25 PM

Quote from: Slambo on July 18, 2024, 07:47:16 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2024, 06:07:43 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 18, 2024, 07:28:22 AMThey have similar things like "add 1d8 feet to each long or high jump you make" or "proficient in stealth and squeeze as a small creature" or "advantage on perception checks" or similar that reflect innate racial traits in arguably more interesting ways than +2 Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom does.

I do not recall any race getting that in 5e?

The jump thing is from the rabbit race i dont remmeber where it was introduced though.

Harengon get a bonus action jump that's 5 times their proficiency bonus.

Actually I was thinking of the Satyr.

Mirthful Leaps. Whenever you make a long jump or a high jump, you can roll a d8 and add the number rolled to the number of feet you cover, even when making a standing jump. This extra distance costs movement as normal. ~ Monsters of the Multiverse, p. 29.

ahhh. Totally misread the initial comment. Thought you had meant ALL not-human races got some sort of blanket bonus ability.

Nah... just that they switched from +2 Strength to specific traits that are basically always useful regardless of class choice.

One of the biggest issues that honestly plagued all the WotC editions was that the racial ability bonuses really made certain combos of race and class really sub-optimal... basically you had to pay a "concept tax" if you wanted to play something like a Dwarf Rogue or a Half-Orc Sorcerer.

Even the 4E and 5E switch to only racial bonuses without penalties didn't really help... Humans could get +2 to whichever key stat they wanted, but if you wanted to play an Elf Wizard you'd actually start 2 points behind the human and never catch up (the Eladrin; basically the High Elves in 4E; were the ones who got the racial Intelligence bonus).

I'm not sure when the idea hit the D&D folks, but for me and my project it was mainly realizing that Dwarves in 4E still made great fighters despite not getting a Strength bump (technically putting them behind a human or dragonborn) because their Dwarven Resilience (letting them use their Second Wind as a minor action instead of a standard action) and Stand Your Ground (reducing the effects of forced movement and getting a saving throw to avoid being knocked prone) actually proved as or more valuable to Fighters (who took more hits than the rest of the party and needed positioning to best protect their allies) than a +2 to their Strength score would (basically +1 to hit and damage).

Regardless... traits like "double your lifting and carrying" definitely gives those races superior strength to other characters, but does so in a way where its never a wasted thing. Previously +2 Strength for someone who didn't need Strength probably just means its a 10 instead of an 8 (if you were using an array)... just human average.

By contrast, doubling lift and carry means that 8 is effectively a 16 for lifting and carrying... well above human average. Even a wizard who uses Strength as a dump stat will see benefit from that and a character with Strength of the focus could be lifting like they had a 40 Strength.

The same goes for the jump bonus since that +1d8 applies to even standing vertical jumps (normally half of "3 + your Strength modifier") which is just 1' for a Strength 8 character and you can reach 1.5 times your height... so a 5' human could reach 8.5' with their hands with a jump like that.

By contrast, even a slightly below average roll for a weakling bumps that to 5' (you can now easily grab that ledge 10' up) and for a strong PC, your feet could clear 12' on a maximum roll (and if you're 5' 6" or more you could grab a ledge 20' up with enough attempts).

Now, personally, I don't like 5e's over-reliance on dice for its special traits... +1d8 sounds great until you roll that 1 when you needed a 2 or better to clear the gap... but in terms of the concept of races making their distinctions via specific traits instead of just some rather trivial numbers (+/-5% relative to other PCs) is one I can whole-heartedly.

The only mistake I think they really made with that was in leaving the modifiers in at all vs. adjusting the math slightly to the unmodified dice results... that's an unnecessary bit of complication that exists mostly out of "tradition" at this point.

just play real life and stop crying

Quote from: DUCATISLO on July 21, 2024, 09:35:13 AMjust play real life and stop crying

Real life isnt very realistic.

Quote from: DUCATISLO on July 21, 2024, 09:35:13 AMjust play real life and stop crying

Now where's the fun in that?

With the new changes to the race system in 6e. What actually does a human character have going for it?

At least with 5e you could either get +1s across the board, which I prefered. Or a +1/+2 and a feat.

Quote from: Omega on July 23, 2024, 05:35:31 AMWith the new changes to the race system in 6e. What actually does a human character have going for it?

At least with 5e you could either get +1s across the board, which I prefered. Or a +1/+2 and a feat.

Humans, at least according to the playtest material for the thing (which apparently has not changed) gets...

Resourceful. You gain Inspiration whenever you finish a Long Rest.
Skillful. You gain Proficiency in one Skill of your choice.
Versatile. You gain the Skilled Feat or another 1st-level Feat of your choice.

The Skilled feat gives you proficiency in three more skills... so the default human would have proficiency in any four skills of choice (or could take something like Magic Initiate and snag a couple cantrips and a 1/day spell).

By contrast a Dwarf gets...
Darkvision. You have Darkvision with a range of 60 feet.
Dwarven Resilience. You have Resistance to Poison Damage. You also have Advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the Poisoned Condition on yourself.
Dwarven Toughness. Your Hit Point Maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 again whenever you gain a level.
Forge Wise. Your divine creator gave you an uncanny affinity for working with stone or metal. You gain Tool Proficiency with two of the following options of your choice: Jeweler's Tools, Mason's Tools, Smith's Tools, or Tinker's Tools.
Stonecunning. As a Bonus Action, you gain Tremorsense with a range of 60 feet for 10 minutes. You must be on a stone surface or touching such a surface to use this Tremorsense. The stone can be natural or worked. You can use this Bonus Action a number of times equal to your Proficiency Bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.

My preference has always been that humans are the baseline race, with no special advantages or disadvantages.  The other races then have plusses and minuses that make them different but equivalent in power.

Quote from: Mishihari on July 23, 2024, 01:05:20 PMMy preference has always been that humans are the baseline race, with no special advantages or disadvantages.  The other races then have plusses and minuses that make them different but equivalent in power.

I mean, technically, if you do give "bonuses" to humans, you can think of that as the baseline, and any other races that don't get the bonuses that humans get can count that as a "minus"

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on July 23, 2024, 01:41:06 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on July 23, 2024, 01:05:20 PMMy preference has always been that humans are the baseline race, with no special advantages or disadvantages.  The other races then have plusses and minuses that make them different but equivalent in power.

I mean, technically, if you do give "bonuses" to humans, you can think of that as the baseline, and any other races that don't get the bonuses that humans get can count that as a "minus"

Well, yes, that does come out the same.  But when I'm writing the rest of the rules I like to be able to use humans as baseline for performance -- it makes it simpler and easier for me to think about -- and then just remember that other races will be slightly better or worse than that.  At the end of the day you get to the same place mathwise either way, but I find it simpler to think about, personally, hence quicker in play, to do it my way.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 23, 2024, 12:46:45 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 23, 2024, 05:35:31 AMWith the new changes to the race system in 6e. What actually does a human character have going for it?

At least with 5e you could either get +1s across the board, which I prefered. Or a +1/+2 and a feat.

Humans, at least according to the playtest material for the thing (which apparently has not changed) gets...

Resourceful. You gain Inspiration whenever you finish a Long Rest.
Versatile. You gain the Skilled Feat or another 1st-level Feat of your choice.

Isnt Fake 5e supposed to be making getting inspiration either very easy now or practically automatic?

Does not every class or background now grant a free feat at level 1?
So humans get 2 feats at start (or 3 more skills)?

And this is all supposedly backwards compatible. wotc could not tell the truth if they tried.