Quote from: Lynn on August 10, 2023, 01:45:18 AM
My interest dropped considerably after this changed from an OSE setting to its own game system.

Yeah, there were lots of complaints on the Dolmenwood/OSE discussion forums about that when it was first announced.  So Gavin added a race (kindred) as class option in the Player's Book.  In skimming the preview it seems that the main changes from OSE mechanically are ascending AC (which was already optional in OSE), slightly changed saving throw categories, and separating race from class (which was an option in OSE advanced).  There are slightly more complex monster stat blocks with assorted optional traits and possible encounter set-ups.  So not huge changes, certainly not along the lines of what Proctor did to Labyrinth Lord, but there are a few.

Ascending armor class means I will not be backing this. Sell-outs.

Quote from: Persimmon on August 10, 2023, 09:01:24 AM
Yeah, there were lots of complaints on the Dolmenwood/OSE discussion forums about that when it was first announced.  So Gavin added a race (kindred) as class option in the Player's Book.  In skimming the preview it seems that the main changes from OSE mechanically are ascending AC (which was already optional in OSE), slightly changed saving throw categories, and separating race from class (which was an option in OSE advanced).  There are slightly more complex monster stat blocks with assorted optional traits and possible encounter set-ups.  So not huge changes, certainly not along the lines of what Proctor did to Labyrinth Lord, but there are a few.

I suspect that doing this (and others have done this too) is the result of hearing that add-on books don't sell as well as full game books. I get that, but I just don't want to pay for yet another set of rules that I don't need because I got OSE - especially since during the last OSE Kickstarter there was still talk of this fantastic setting book coming along. I am sure there were some people that got OSE (via the Kickstarter) because they knew Dolmenwood would be coming along.

I have been looking forward to this kickstarter for some time now. Unfortunately I just blew all of my disposable income on hardcover Lamentations of the Flame Princess adventures, and the entire collection of Castle Falkenstein books at Gencon. 

This kickstarter could not have been timed any worse.

Take solace in the fact that you will be able to get the books after the campaign if you desire, likely at a better price.

Quote from: rkhigdon on August 10, 2023, 12:57:42 PM
Take solace in the fact that you will be able to get the books after the campaign if you desire, likely at a better price.

Echoing this, i got my OSE books off humble bundle for hardly anything though they are pdfs

Quote from: cavalier973 on August 10, 2023, 09:25:46 AM
Ascending armor class means I will not be backing this. Sell-outs.

That's because 90% of those <30 years old cannot do single digit math in their heads.   Much less negative numbers.   

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 09, 2023, 02:34:48 PM
Folklore inspired, British Isles, decent system, random character creation, in theory I should like this, but the art style, minis, pins, sound track, patch, etc etc seem to take away from the mystery and danger that the setting should have. It looks like well trampled ground as opposed to a dark wood that people fear to tread. It looks board gamey. These are just impressions and probably not fair, but that's what's stopping me from supporting this one.

It may not be fair, but I got the same impression as well. I am not crazy about these rpg Kickstarters that seem to get distracted by bells and whistles that have little to do with the core of the supplement/game.

Quote from: GamerforHire on August 11, 2023, 09:38:24 AM

Quote from: rytrasmi on August 09, 2023, 02:34:48 PM
Folklore inspired, British Isles, decent system, random character creation, in theory I should like this, but the art style, minis, pins, sound track, patch, etc etc seem to take away from the mystery and danger that the setting should have. It looks like well trampled ground as opposed to a dark wood that people fear to tread. It looks board gamey. These are just impressions and probably not fair, but that's what's stopping me from supporting this one.

It may not be fair, but I got the same impression as well. I am not crazy about these rpg Kickstarters that seem to get distracted by bells and whistles that have little to do with the core of the supplement/game.

It's become an arms race of sorts.  You see it all over the place now where they're adding t-shirts, stickers, slipcases, "special, limited edition" covers, minis, custom dice, and the soundtrack, which has gained a certain cache in the past couple years.  In fact, there are a few bands out there who seem to simply cater to this niche audience, creating "dungeon synth" or other permutations of New Age music specifically as tie-ins for RPGs.  I suppose this is just capitalism in its extreme form and you don't need to purchase these extras if you don't want them.  But the escalation in recent years is striking.  At least Necrotic Gnome has a track record of delivery, even if it's not always timely.

I NEVER give $ for the development of a new RPG.  Why not?  Because in today's environment one can produce and publish digitally for almost nothing.  Compared  to pre-internet when one had to invent the game, publish hard copy AND somehow get it placed in the physical channel (Distributor --> Reseller ----> Brick & Mortar) with primarily self financing. 

If one cannot produce a good game in PDF format and put it on DriveThru and the like without tens of thousands of $.  It's probably not gonna be worth it.

Quote from: Scooter on August 11, 2023, 10:12:24 AM
I NEVER give $ for the development of a new RPG.  Why not?  Because in today's environment one can produce and publish digitally for almost nothing.  Compared  to pre-internet when one had to invent the game, publish hard copy AND somehow get it placed in the physical channel (Distributor --> Reseller ----> Brick & Mortar) with primarily self financing.  If one cannot produce a good game in PDF format and put it on DriveThru and the like without tens of thousands of $.  It's probably not gonna be worth it.

It looks like this is mostly done, however there's something disingenuous about a mostly done game and a delivery of actual books a full year in the future.

Some vendors seem fully capable of a reasonable delivery.

The Mothership 1e Kickstarter ended December 1, 2021, with an estimated delivery date of November 2022. Files were sent to print the last day of July.

The Hull Breach Vol 1 book (for Mothership 1e) ended in January 2022 with an estimated September 2022 ship date. If you check out the materials of this one, it likely is as much, if not more complex than the Mothership 1e build. People are receiving them now, after books being sent by ship.

I get the impact of COVID, but I don't see how the latter did so much better than the former, given the former seems to have had more experienced people behind it.

Quote from: Lynn on August 11, 2023, 10:44:19 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 11, 2023, 10:12:24 AM
I NEVER give $ for the development of a new RPG.  Why not?  Because in today's environment one can produce and publish digitally for almost nothing.  Compared  to pre-internet when one had to invent the game, publish hard copy AND somehow get it placed in the physical channel (Distributor --> Reseller ----> Brick & Mortar) with primarily self financing.  If one cannot produce a good game in PDF format and put it on DriveThru and the like without tens of thousands of $.  It's probably not gonna be worth it.

It looks like this is mostly done, however there's something disingenuous about a mostly done game and a delivery of actual books a full year in the future.

If it is done where are the PDFs?  It is not "disingenuous" it is ludicrous and probably a bit shifty.

Backed it for $95, curious to see if the physical quality of these is as good as the other Kickstarter offerings.

RE: "WHERE AT THE PDFS?!?", they already released a very substantial PDF sample with excepts from parts of the books; there is no fucking way this could have been produced without having 99% of the content written and laid out already. This isn't hard, guys.

EDIT: https://www.exaltedfuneral.com/products/dolmenwood-preview-pdf <---- it's literally the second block of text on the KS page.

Quote from: Brad on August 11, 2023, 11:42:04 AM


RE: "WHERE AT THE PDFS?!?", they already released a very substantial PDF sample

A sample isn't what I'm talking about.  Fail for straw man

Quote from: Scooter on August 11, 2023, 11:43:52 AM
A sample isn't what I'm talking about.  Fail for straw man

Just admit you have no idea WTF you're talking about and overreacted. The PDFs will be released whenever they're released; the last KS I think I got them fairly quickly after the campaign was over. The physical books took quite a bit longer to arrive, but that was expected.

How did I know you didn't read anything?

Quote
How will PDFs be delivered?

The PDFs will be available as a digital download via BackerKit. Backers will receive near-finished PDFs of the core books shortly after the campaign ends (see Shipping and Timeline). These will be updated as the final stages of development are completed. Other PDFs (e.g. adventures) will be made available via BackerKit when ready.

So...like you're just wrong?