I think for the most part people are just tired of the utter stupidity behind trying to appease a small group of vocal morons who don't even buy the products they're complaining about. Dolemwood via the 'zines was cool, but everything I've read about the actual KS product (why it's its own game is fucking beyond me) proves that a creator who doesn't remain true to his vision is going to produce something mediocre. Too many cooks and all that...this is especially sad because Dolemwood was really cool.

Quote from: Katowice on April 24, 2025, 09:02:43 PMI don't have any experience with Dolmenwood before the Kickstarter, so I don't know what all the fuss is about (examples of "weakness?"). Since I actually am a backer and have the PDF's: what I read is a decent dark fairytale OSR setting (lacking in any wokeness as far as I can tell) along the lines of Labyrinth, The Last Unicorn, etc.  I hate wokeness and safety tools and all that junk, but I'm just seeing any of what some of you are claiming.

Regardless, the books are just books; what happens at your table is where it becomes a roleplaying game.

To each his own, I guess...

I was shocked there was no safety tools or pronouns anywhere.

What people are upset about is the company EF being woke and the complete rewrite of the source material. It is a complete tonal shift.

I asked for and received a full refund for my Dolmenwood KS pledge after I saw the advance pdfs.  They were cool about it and I'm glad I got out when I did. 

I've got my OSE rulebooks and we're currently running Rob Alderman's awesome "Gods of the Forbidden North" campaign with it, but I'm done buying new OSE products.

Quote from: Brad on April 24, 2025, 10:04:48 PMI think for the most part people are just tired of the utter stupidity behind trying to appease a small group of vocal morons who don't even buy the products they're complaining about. Dolemwood via the 'zines was cool, but everything I've read about the actual KS product (why it's its own game is fucking beyond me) proves that a creator who doesn't remain true to his vision is going to produce something mediocre. Too many cooks and all that...this is especially sad because Dolemwood was really cool.

Iirc the stuff that was sanded down in the transistion from Workskin to Dolmenwood actually came from the other author Greg Gorgonmilk and Gavin Norman sanded off the corners real fast after he left.

Sanded down?  Admittedly I'm new to both versions of the setting but the changes described sound about as appropriate as saying Jarl Varg from the Norsemen show just got a manicure in season 1. 

I read the thread, but I have no prior experience with Dolmenwood prior to the Kickstarter. I was simply evaluating it on its own merits and I found it pretty interesting and engrossing; plus lacking in any wokeness, much like OSE. I don't have any sense of what came before, no more than I have for previous editions of Dragonbane (Drakar och Demoner) nor Pendragon. I'm simply stating what I am reading in the current edition: it's fine and I'm enjoying it.

To be clear, I've played every edition of D&D since BECMI, AD&dD, 3E and 5E (plus Pathfinder). I am well aware of all the stupid changes and the blatant stupid wokeness that has apeared in the game ("oh no, orcs are people too!"). I quit supporting many of the same game companies that have been criticized on this forum (Green Ronin, Evil Hat, SJG, etc.) and sold off or thrown out those products because of what's happened with them the past 10-15 years. That said, I have found no such stupid content in OSE, Dolmenwood, nor Shadowdark. They don't have any warnings about safety or anything like that.

I feel like there's sometimes too much sensitivity or knee jerk reaction with some folks on the polar opposite side of the wokey-people. This kind of overreaction occurs if they see a something that somehow implies some kind of DEI messaging to them ("there's an asian guy here, obviously it's woke"). It's frankly as ridiculous as the wokey-people looking for racism, sexism, -phobia or whatever it is. I think we all need to take a deep breath, relax and be better than those people.

In summary, on its own merits, without any prior experience I find OSE and Dolmenwood just fine. If you were there years ago and didn't like this change or that change, that's fair; I didn't buy D&D 4E either for those reasons. When they took cavalier, barbarians, devils and demons out of AD&D for 2E, my group--playing 2E--just added them back in. I don't think the creators are going to lose any sleep over somebody not buying this because they think it's "too woke" nor are they going lose sleep if somebody thinks it's "not woke enough."

Quote from: RNGm on April 24, 2025, 09:56:11 PM

Quote from: Katowice on April 24, 2025, 09:02:43 PMI don't have any experience with Dolmenwood before the Kickstarter, so I don't know what all the fuss is about (examples of "weakness?"). Since I actually am a backer and have the PDF's: what I read is a decent dark fairytale OSR setting (lacking in any wokeness as far as I can tell) along the lines of Labyrinth, The Last Unicorn, etc.  I hate wokeness and safety tools and all that junk, but I'm just seeing any of what some of you are claiming.

Regardless, the books are just books; what happens at your table is where it becomes a roleplaying game.

To each his own, I guess...

Did you take a look at the older thread linked above?  It does a good job of explaining the changes folks are talking about.

Quote from: Katowice on April 25, 2025, 09:44:45 PMI read the thread, but I have no prior experience with Dolmenwood prior to the Kickstarter. I was simply evaluating it on its own merits and I found it pretty interesting and engrossing; plus lacking in any wokeness, much like OSE. I don't have any sense of what came before, no more than I have for previous editions of Dragonbane (Drakar och Demoner) nor Pendragon. I'm simply stating what I am reading in the current edition: it's fine and I'm enjoying it.

To be clear, I've played every edition of D&D since BECMI, AD&dD, 3E and 5E (plus Pathfinder). I am well aware of all the stupid changes and the blatant stupid wokeness that has apeared in the game ("oh no, orcs are people too!"). I quit supporting many of the same game companies that have been criticized on this forum (Green Ronin, Evil Hat, SJG, etc.) and sold off or thrown out those products because of what's happened with them the past 10-15 years. That said, I have found no such stupid content in OSE, Dolmenwood, nor Shadowdark. They don't have any warnings about safety or anything like that.

I feel like there's sometimes too much sensitivity or knee jerk reaction with some folks on the polar opposite side of the wokey-people. This kind of overreaction occurs if they see a something that somehow implies some kind of DEI messaging to them ("there's an asian guy here, obviously it's woke"). It's frankly as ridiculous as the wokey-people looking for racism, sexism, -phobia or whatever it is. I think we all need to take a deep breath, relax and be better than those people.

In summary, on its own merits, without any prior experience I find OSE and Dolmenwood just fine. If you were there years ago and didn't like this change or that change, that's fair; I didn't buy D&D 4E either for those reasons. When they took cavalier, barbarians, devils and demons out of AD&D for 2E, my group--playing 2E--just added them back in. I don't think the creators are going to lose any sleep over somebody not buying this because they think it's "too woke" nor are they going lose sleep if somebody thinks it's "not woke enough."

Quote from: RNGm on April 24, 2025, 09:56:11 PM

Quote from: Katowice on April 24, 2025, 09:02:43 PMI don't have any experience with Dolmenwood before the Kickstarter, so I don't know what all the fuss is about (examples of "weakness?"). Since I actually am a backer and have the PDF's: what I read is a decent dark fairytale OSR setting (lacking in any wokeness as far as I can tell) along the lines of Labyrinth, The Last Unicorn, etc.  I hate wokeness and safety tools and all that junk, but I'm just seeing any of what some of you are claiming.

Regardless, the books are just books; what happens at your table is where it becomes a roleplaying game.

To each his own, I guess...

Did you take a look at the older thread linked above?  It does a good job of explaining the changes folks are talking about.

The setting is still quite dark, with a lot of soul trapping and grotesque body horror and unavoidable death.

Spoilers

for dms only

There is an encounter where a woman magician fouled up a spell, and split herself into three parts: her skin, her skeleton, and her viscera. Her consciousness is with the viscera, her skeleton is a mindless golem type creature, and her skin strangled her husband to death. The skin moves around the garden, trying to get back into the cottage.

There are anthropomorphic pigs that switched places with the farmers that owned them, and eat the flesh of the fat, stinky humans that are now non-sentient.

A woman baker cooks thieves alive in a gingerbread man shell, turning them into automatons.

The "lawful" Duke sacrificed his own daughter to a demon-like creature, due to a family curse.

One of the noble families has been infected with fungus; the lord is a hideous mass of mushrooms, hidden away in the basement.

There is a town that was destroyed by plague centuries before, but its pre-plague existence was magically brought through time to the present by a sorceress. No one who is born in the town can leave.

There is a swamp creature that vomits on your face, which gives you the ability to breathe underwater. Then, it drags you down under the lake to be its slave.