Quote from: David Johansen;913336I've seen examples  of doll art that looked photorealistic at the right distance and this wouldn't bother me at all.  Similarly I've seen poser art that was complex, nuanced, and brilliantly composed.

Bad line art is just as bad.  Just take a look at mine.

http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/ArcCon.pdf

pages 4, 6 8, 13, 55

You'd be happier with He Man figures!

Oh well you get what you pay for

I like that lineart better than all the poser stuff I've seen.



I was thinking, I'd rather have a blank cover than that. And then I thought how cool a black market book with just a black cover with white lettering would have looked.

Quote from: David Johansen;913336I've seen examples  of doll art that looked photorealistic at the right distance and this wouldn't bother me at all.  Similarly I've seen poser art that was complex, nuanced, and brilliantly composed.

Bad line art is just as bad.  Just take a look at mine.

http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/ArcCon.pdf

pages 4, 6 8, 13, 55

You'd be happier with He Man figures!

Oh well you get what you pay for

uh. Thats actually pretty good line art?

The real problem with CP3 was that it had the dolls AND setting-wise turned off alot of fans of the setting. Had the setting not been a problen fans would have looked at the doll art, gone WTF? shrugged and played as the art in the book isnt the game at the table.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;913379I like that lineart better than all the poser stuff I've seen.



I was thinking, I'd rather have a blank cover than that. And then I thought how cool a black market book with just a black cover with white lettering would have looked.

They did a Justin Bieber sourcebook for Rifts?

How is he still alive in the distant gonzo future? How did he get that metal arm? Is it made out of melted-down Grammys?

Quote from: Omega;913380uh. Thats actually pretty good line art?

That was my reaction as well. Maybe a humble brag by Mr. Johansen? If not, he's not giving himself enough credit.

Well, thanks, I was at least half joking, hence the " ".

But honestly, a big part of developing artistic skill is hating your own work.  If you don't see the flaws you don't improve.

Quote from: Omega;913380uh. Thats actually pretty good line art?

Quote from: Harlock;913392That was my reaction as well. Maybe a humble brag by Mr. Johansen? If not, he's not giving himself enough credit.

Quote from: David Johansen;913394Well, thanks, I was at least half joking, hence the " ".
But honestly, a big part of developing artistic skill is hating your own work.  If you don't see the flaws you don't improve.

Just work on the presentation.
Even terrible art can be charming with a bit of polish.

*edit*
I would say even the bad CG on the cover of that Rifts book could have been made into something brilliant with professional software or even just small adjustments to compensate for limitations of the medium.
It's not the fact that it's computer generated that makes it look bad, it's the plastic surfaces, the creepy Real Doll look, and the overall cluttered compesition that makes it look bad.
Imagine an RPG book illustrated by the Pixar staff; that wouldn't look bad at all, would it?

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Whenever I make a color illustration, I always check to see what it looks like desaturated. Removing the colors and looking at it in black & white reveals a lot of things you might not have noticed before.
This image does not have strong contrasts. It doesn't have strong contrasts in black and white, and it didn't have strong contrasts in color. You need strong contrasts to create strong hierarchies. This image does not have strong contrasts. This poser image was not composed to make good use of 3D lighting. The biggest and brightest patch of light in the image is right behind that woman's butt on the far right of the composition. You put strong lights and darks in places that you are trying to draw the viewers eye to. Look at the man closes to us in the bottom left of the frame. What is that thing he is holding? Tonally, it just blends in with everything else around it; you generally don't want that on foreground objects!

Poser is not a professional tool, and you can't really make professional quality work with it, but it is possible to make something passable with it if you follow good design principles.

If I absolutely had to use poser to illustrate an rpg book, here is how I would do it:

1) Use lighting intelligently
2) Don't try to clutter up the image with too many figures; just because you can squeeze five characters into the picture frame doesn't mean you should.
3) Keep the backgrounds simple. Don't clutter it up.
4) Avoid showing faces as much as possible. CGI in general just isn't good at depicting the human form except when heavily stylized (Pixar films) or from a great distance (any film made now that depicts large crowds). Expensive CGI is getting close to convincing, but cheap CGI? Just, no.
5) CGI does handle mechanical objects well. Focus on those. You could make a passably OK poser image of a glitterboy or something.
6) Try to cover up the plastic look somehow.

*edit*
Oh, god, and whatever you do pay attention to your color palette. I just looked at the color version again and it's like the computer screen puked in my eye.

I can't stand Poser "art". I refuse to buy any book that screams "Poser" on its cover. Clothing mannequins is all it is.

I should ask what you guys think about professional quality CGI art in rpg books.
As in, with a cover that looks like it could be a still from a Pixar or Dreamworks film.
Hell, or even a high-end Skyrim mod.
We all know that bad poser art looks bad, but could good CGI work in an rpg book?

Quote from: Cave Bear;913451We all know that bad poser art looks bad, but could good CGI work in an rpg book?

I can think of a case where good CGI art would be requisite - Final Fantasy RPG

Quote from: Cave Bear;913451I should ask what you guys think about professional quality CGI art in rpg books.
As in, with a cover that looks like it could be a still from a Pixar or Dreamworks film.
Hell, or even a high-end Skyrim mod.
We all know that bad poser art looks bad, but could good CGI work in an rpg book?

Of course. It's being done now by good artists. CG art should look like this, in my book. https://www.artstation.com/artwork?sorting=picks&medium=digital3d&category=matte_painting

And not look like this http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/128018/Hub-Federation-Navy?manufacturers_id=3565

Quote from: Harlock;913469I can think of a case where good CGI art would be requisite - Final Fantasy RPG

I was thinking it might also be really useful in Traveller where you want detailed layouts of ships. The last Traveller campaign I played in took place in a ship with an insane number of decks. Like, 40 something decks. It would have been really nice to have rotating 3D maps on an app or something.
I remember seeing some pdfs from Games Workshop that had images you could rotate. That's definitely an area where CGI illustrations would be useful. It would make some more complicated dungeons easier to visualize. (I'm now wondering if I might be able to implement that using Adobe Indesign, and if so, might I be able to use something like that to cheat on the one-page dungeon contest?)

Quote from: Cave Bear;913362Higher resolution and professional graphic design would help.

Sure but higher resolution makes for really fat pdfs.  And I'm mostly doing it for my own narcissistic fulfillment anyhow.  Personally I still like games that look like they were laid out on a type writer.  But honestly, Word Perfect is really finicky at putting art into stuff.  You'll often open a file and find everything has moved a bit.  I probably should upgrade to something more professional.

I think on an amateur or free project poser art and indeed bad line art isn't the end of the world.  Heck, even bad doll art might be forgivable.

But the more they're asking, the more the art and layout need to be professional.

Quote from: David Johansen;913480I think on an amateur or free project poser art and indeed bad line art isn't the end of the world.  Heck, even bad doll art might be forgivable.

But the more they're asking, the more the art and layout need to be professional.

Oh, I definitely agree with this. In a free .pdf, I don't care if the art looks like finger painting... or Marc Chagall.