I've seen several rule systems that give a bonus for magic working on you if the caster knows your "True Name".
It would seem to me that if that was the case everyone would go by a nick names, alias or appellation.
How many players never use their "True Names" and do they pick their alias or do other party members?
Should "True Names" always have a mechanical effect in game?
What about "Royalty"? Should their names be a source of power, for at least political purposes?
How practical would it be to have "True Names" also give strength as well as 'weakness'?
True names are popular in fiction, where they frequently serve as a plot element that must be uncovered to defeat a particular opponent. Unfortunately, that structure doesn't work well in most RPGs. RPGs tend to have many opponents that are briefly encountered, defeated, and then are gone from the game, and giving them all true names to be uncovered it pretty pointless. Even with recurrent NPCs or boss monsters it's questionable, because mystery-like elements work best when they're not essential to the successful completion of the adventure. For true names, that means the effects have to be fairly minor, which makes them a lot less compelling.
It could work well in a game focused on intrigue or mysteries. Something set in an imperial court where the PCs try to gain leverage on various courtiers, possibly including their true names, for instance. But that's rather different than the standard band of wandering adventurers.
The idea of "True Names", as I understand it, isn't necessarily about legal names or the name given to someone at birth, but more like a metaphysical idea of a special name, based on some type of sacred language, that speaks to the true nature of a person or being. From a mystical point of view it deals with the idea of gaining an insight into the true nature of reality. The idea is that someone who knows someone else's "true name" has some sort of power over them because they understand their true nature or something to that effect. It wouldn't even be relevant unless you make a point of it in your campaign.
I'm not really sure how to handle "True Names" in terms of the game rules cuz I've never tried it before, and I'm not even sure such a concept would work outside of literature, where an author has more control on the course of a story, or myth, where a story is there to teach you something. Within a proper story or myth learning someone's True Name can serve a greater purpose for something specific that the protagonist is trying to accomplish (or is meant/destined to accomplish at some point), but in a collaborative game with many players with potentially conflicting agendas who are just there to "play a game" it can become a source of grievance if one PC learns another PC's or important NPC's "true name" and starts messing with them or sabotaging anything they do.
Unless the PCs are supposed to near the True Name of a demon or evil demigod so they can banish it from their world, I'm not sure how to make True Names work in an RPG. But there's probably some games that have already dealt with the concept (none come to mind now, but I think I read a game where they came up years ago) and might provide some clues on how to gamify True Names.
Nah I'm not running any games where that's an issue. Maybe if I ever did an Earthsea game
Earthdawn dug into this concept.
https://arkanabar.tripod.com/threads.html
Another reminder I missed out on Earth dawn as a youngjn
I actually do true names to be your full legal name with all legal titles. So
Casting a spell on the queen of England that requires a true name is very difficult. While mister Robert Jackson is much easier.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 17, 2021, 06:18:55 PM
Earthdawn dug into this concept.
https://arkanabar.tripod.com/threads.html
Ah, that must have been where I saw this concept handled in a game before. I got the core book ages ago (in the 90s), but never got around to playing it. Hence, I forgot. If I ever want to deal with "True Names" I'll have to remember to reread this stuff, cuz Earthdawn had some interesting ideas in the way they handle the metaphysics of it.
Both "Beyond the Wall" and "Through Sunken Lands" have use for True Names but it is mostly for Fae or demons and such.
If you have a Fae background then it can be a weakness.
I would think that if you truly knew yourself, that would also be a strength. Order in Chaos sort of thing.
While you may be weaker to things focused towards you, you would be stronger against things that were not.
Quote from: Arnwolf666 on April 17, 2021, 06:40:08 PM
I actually do true names to be your full legal name with all legal titles. So
Casting a spell on the queen of England that requires a true name is very difficult. While mister Robert Jackson is much easier.
So reality is defined not by physical laws, but by human legal codes? Truenamers are... lawyers?
What do you call 20,000 truenamers at the bottom of the ocean?
A good start.
I think it implies that a True Name is not something given by others but something you discern yourself.
Imagine being doxxed by some pissed off wizard who posts one's 'true name' on every tavern board in the kingdom.
Quote from: DocJones on April 17, 2021, 07:32:42 PM
Imagine being doxxed by some pissed off wizard who posts one's 'true name' on every tavern board in the kingdom.
"Knowing" a name and having the power to make use of it should be far different.
Yes, you can be hurtful but it's not literal "sticks & stones". Also, sounds like the beginning of a serious Quest.
True names featured prominently in the campaign present in the Hellbound: The Blood War boxed set for Planescape.
The Yugoloths plan to exert tighter control over the Tanar'ri and Baatezu, and their main scheme revolves around a creature with a special power. This creature is able to give any being whose True Name is known to it the ability to Teleport Without Error, as per the spell.
The fiends have that ability because this creature is fed each of their True Names. The Yugoloths devise a scheme to dump the creature into the river Styx, which wipes all memory from the swimmer (thus removing from the fiends their ability to TWE at will), and then to teach the creature the True Name of every fiend that is, shall we say malleable to the Yugoloths' demands.
Those fiends that refuse to deal with the Yugoloths never recover their ability to TWE. It's an incredibly major development in the setting, and the PCs can be directly involved with it, even if they are likely unwitting.
Besides a True Name not being your legal name it can also be managed in a pseudo cabalistic way, after all the guys of the Kabalah were trying to find out the true name of God because I don't remember why.
You're born with it or you gain it by your deeds, but even you might not know your true name, knowing it grants power. So if you know your true name you gain power over yourself.
Not sure I'm making any sense tho.
Might not make sense, but it reminded me of Unsong:
http://unsongbook.com/
Free ebook about kabbalism and the search for true names of God, with dead kings in Vegas, archangels setting up shop in hurricanes in the middle of the Caribbean, the Bay Area caught up in rapture, ancient Mayan plant dream drug things, and a lot of metaphysical, epistemological, and logical geekery. May or may not be inspirational, but it's not a bad read.
Quote from: DocJones on April 17, 2021, 07:32:42 PM
Imagine being doxxed by some pissed off wizard who posts one's 'true name' on every tavern board in the kingdom.
This was a serious plot point in (IIRC) a Neil Gaiman comic. A mythic entity was being threatened by Baba Yaga (again, IIRC), who seriously magically outclassed him, and his response to her threats was simply to speak her true name aloud, for all to hear, with the implication that while Baba Yaga could absolutely take him and the human he was protecting apart without resistance, even she had enemies who could use her name against her. And, IIRC, it was also left ambiguous if the mythic entity actually knew the name after the fact, or if the entire thing was a giant bluff.
And, to tie it back to the adventurers, there's a bit of folklore from Jewish tales, about the correct way to name a child. Specifically, the mother is supposed to come up with a true, secret name, whisper it in the child's ear shortly after they are born, and then never refer to it again, taking it to her grave, while referring to her child by their given name, which is magically just an alias. If done correctly, this should inoculate the child against all manner of name-based magical fuckery. But just because it's folkloric doesn't mean it's not super munchkiny, so I could see it or closely related shenanigans not being allowed in games with true names being significant.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 17, 2021, 03:22:17 PM
The idea of "True Names", as I understand it, isn't necessarily about legal names or the name given to someone at birth, but more like a metaphysical idea of a special name, based on some type of sacred language, that speaks to the true nature of a person or being. From a mystical point of view it deals with the idea of gaining an insight into the true nature of reality. The idea is that someone who knows someone else's "true name" has some sort of power over them because they understand their true nature or something to that effect. It wouldn't even be relevant unless you make a point of it in your campaign.
It really depends on what fiction you are using as source material. Frex, in the Black Company books, true names were simply the name one was given at birth, and if you can discover a sorcerer's true name and have a modicum of ability yourself, then he's pretty much toast. This was a big deal. The Dominator razed nations and slaughtered millions to hide his true name, and when Lady was named as Dorotea Senjak by Silent, she went from empress of the known world to refugee.
Quote from: Mishihari on April 22, 2021, 01:16:38 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 17, 2021, 03:22:17 PM
The idea of "True Names", as I understand it, isn't necessarily about legal names or the name given to someone at birth, but more like a metaphysical idea of a special name, based on some type of sacred language, that speaks to the true nature of a person or being. From a mystical point of view it deals with the idea of gaining an insight into the true nature of reality. The idea is that someone who knows someone else's "true name" has some sort of power over them because they understand their true nature or something to that effect. It wouldn't even be relevant unless you make a point of it in your campaign.
It really depends on what fiction you are using as source material. Frex, in the Black Company books, true names were simply the name one was given at birth, and if you can discover a sorcerer's true name and have a modicum of ability yourself, then he's pretty much toast. This was a big deal. The Dominator razed nations and slaughtered millions to hide his true name, and when Lady was named as Dorotea Senjak by Silent, she went from empress of the known world to refugee.
Whereas in the Earthsea series, you're given a secret name at birth (e.g. Ged or Estarriol), and another common name you use in public (Sparrowhawk or Vetch). The true name supposedly defines your essence, and knowing it basically opens you up to magic, because nothing can be summoned, transformed, or controlled without knowing its true name. Sharing your true name with someone is a sign that you trust that person with more than just your life. That's also why learning the true names of the world and its parts is such a big part of magical education, because you can't control the wind without knowing all the names of the different winds. The Master Namer is the one of the masters of the school of magic at Roke, and wizards may spend a lifetime learning one true name. In the first book alone, the two biggest encounters in the book (with the dragon and with the shadow) revolve around true names.
Dragon Quest has true names mostly built into the system. I say only "mostly" because there is a college of magic that uses them and a lot of other references to them in the rest of the rules, but you could ignore it without too much trouble (similar to ignoring alignment in AD&D--some work but can be done). It's pervasive but not core. The "Naming" college is pretty much straight lifted from Earthsea, with the idea that if you don't want your setting to be a lot like it, you minimize that college or drop it.
There are three interesting sops to game play in the DQ concept:
A. True names exist on two levels: Individual and species. You can learn the true name of "lions" and you can learn the true name of a particular lion. The bonus for the particular is immense, effectively making that target have almost no resistance to your magic in some cases and giving you all kinds of "I win" options in others. Not even counting blackmail potential. The species thing is more likely to be useful but has a more playable effect, almost a niche bonus.
B. True names cannot be coerced out of a target by any means, period. They must be freely shared. So no mind control, charms, etc. will get you to reveal one. In keeping with the ambiguity of a lot of DQ rules, they leave it to the GM how far to push this into indirect coercion. "Tell me your true name freely and unreservedly or I kill your soul mate now," might or might not work depending on how the rules are judged.
C. Dragons know a lot of true names for free and are the only non-supernatural creatures that do. When you are given your true name, there are three creatures that know it: You, the Namer that gave it to you, and a dragon somewhere. Namers can know a lot, but other than the ones they give they have to work to learn them. Dragon simply know. Since Dragons are ridiculously powerful on multiple levels in DQ even without this advantage, the ability puts them over the top. The most likely outcome for confronting a dragon with hostility is even a very experienced and large party winds up mostly dead or fleeing or promising the dragon something in return for their lives. The second most likely is that the dragon knows someone's truename and ends the fight before it even really gets started. (As always, exceptions could abound with very weak dragons, but you get the idea.)