Quote from: O'BorgThis happened to me a few months ago when, glancing at The Art of Discworld I was accosted by a large, enthusiastic man with a large, enthusiastic beard who enthused about Discworld.

It's interesting to note that boardgames are doing quite well right now, and they lack the stigma of RPGs.

I've seen other Dad's buying their kids HeroScape, and talking about what expansion packs they should buy.  HeroScape is also advertised in the Christmas Toy flyers.

Wizards of the Coast is right to perceive World of Warcraft as the only competition that Dungeons & Dragons has, as it is in the same place within the Massively Multiplayer Online genre that D&D has in tabletop games.

I agree with the lure, particularly for kids, as being minatures.  I think the odd dice help too.  Every kids has seen a d6, but show them a d4, d8, d10, d12, or d20 and their little eyes light up.

And card.  At 4 my son wanted Duel Masters cards.  He had no idea how to play, what the words said, or even got the idea of 4000 beating 3000.  But he wanted those cards.

I think if you mix those three with a simple rules set that can be expanded in size and complexity, you'd be a millionaire.

Take Stuarts point - start it as a kind of boardgame (with tiles that can change the board per game) and build it into roleplaying. Pretending is right up kids' alley, it's the idea of pretending with rules that has to be built.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalDid you play in a proper group?  did you do an instance?

It's been years since I tried anything, but here's the thing:

QuoteI can tell you, there's little to distinguish the two experiences and the tactical depth and complexity added by the fact that no human GM has to keep track of everything makes the MMORPG a pretty attractive alternative to the table-top RPG experience.

Am I looking for an alternative?  Not really.  I play twice a month.  I GM twice a month.  My schedule doesn't really handle much more regular play and I am throroughly enjoying very close to every run of those 4 nights each month.  Is there a MMORPG experience that will replace the things I get out of being the DM?

And I also agree that TTRPG need to see technology as a possible ally.

OK..Here's my idea.  I doubt anyone will steal it, so here goes.

You create a game system that assumes the use of a small network.  Players plug in handhelds (either specific-task consumer electronics sold by me or their Palm running software). The handhled holds all of the character info.  The server (could be just a GM's laptop) holds the rules,genre, adventure.

The middle of the table is a flat panel display showing the overview.  Each handheld could show character's view. Instant messaging between GM and players for information exchange (secret if necessary).  Long term - make it a holographic display in the middle of the table.

Everyone determines what they are going to do, the server uses the character info, the scenario info (from the GM) and the rules to determine the results (rolls to hit, damage, deals with movement, etc) - then all of it plays out in the screens.

It's a hybrid of computer and tabletop - using the computer for it's strength (crunching the rules) but allowing for the social aspects to be retained.

Thoughts?

Quote from: James J SkachAnd I also agree that TTRPG need to see technology as a possible ally.

OK..Here's my idea.  I doubt anyone will steal it, so here goes.

You create a game system that assumes the use of a small network.  Players plug in handhelds (either specific-task consumer electronics sold by me or their Palm running software). The handhled holds all of the character info.  The server (could be just a GM's laptop) holds the rules,genre, adventure.

The middle of the table is a flat panel display showing the overview.  Each handheld could show character's view. Instant messaging between GM and players for information exchange (secret if necessary).  Long term - make it a holographic display in the middle of the table.

Everyone determines what they are going to do, the server uses the character info, the scenario info (from the GM) and the rules to determine the results (rolls to hit, damage, deals with movement, etc) - then all of it plays out in the screens.

It's a hybrid of computer and tabletop - using the computer for it's strength (crunching the rules) but allowing for the social aspects to be retained.

Thoughts?

It's like you looked inside my head and retrieved the thoughts filed under "Ultimate Gaming Table Setup."  I use a laptop now to do any quick calculations needed for my game (making Excel spreadsheets for any reason is some bizarre obsession of mine), but it would be great to have a networked setup like that.

Quote from: KenHRIt's like you looked inside my head and retrieved the thoughts filed under "Ultimate Gaming Table Setup."  I use a laptop now to do any quick calculations needed for my game (making Excel spreadsheets for any reason is some bizarre obsession of mine), but it would be great to have a networked setup like that.

So the Mind Probe Feat I gained at the con last week is working...

Mwhahaha.....

I'm not trying the Anal Probe power - yet....

Quote from: James J SkachI'm not trying the Anal Probe power - yet....

:eyepop:

Gaming is at least partly a social endeavor and it will always continue to be played face to face.

However, electronic gaming will continue to get better and become more common and will eventually surpass face to face gaming.

I don't think it will be soon however.

Chuck

Quote from: O'BorgThe problem is, how exactly does one go recruiting amongst non-gamers? It's probably not too hard if you're at a school, college or uni - you put a notice on the student message board or you play in public and see who gets curious.

Well, you have friends, relatives, workmates. And your current gamer buddies have got friends, relatives, and workmates. Talk to them. Unless you and your current gamer buddies are basement-dwelling cat piss men, you're going to have something like 4-12 people you talk to regularly who will care if you live or die, and basically like you. And each of them has... and so on. So there's a pool of something like 100 people you know. Of course most of them won't be interested in gaming, but some might, and if they're not, they might know someone who is.

Make New Gamers

Okay, here you have to stop being lazy and shy. If you've got an office job, take your game books to work and leave them on your desk. You'll be amazed how many people come up and ask about them. "Hey, is this Kill Things and Take Their Stuff? I used to play that when I was a kid…" Work on their nostalgia, and get them into gaming again. This is not so much "making new gamers" as, "retreads."

Have a look around at your workmates and friends. Let's say you want to play a roleplaying game set in a sci-fi universe. Sci-fi books and movies are popular. The sort of people who enjoy them, some of them – not all, but some – might enjoy roleplaying in them. Everybody at some point in a movie or book imagines themselves, at least for a moment, as one of its characters. Roleplaying is just doing this for hours, instead of moments.

So, explain to them that roleplaying is just imagining yourself as that character for a while longer, and that the rules are just a framework for that. If they're still a bit vague on what you mean, mention the Choose Your Own Adventure books. You know the ones, where you'd read a paragraph, and at the end it'd say, "if you go through the left door, turn to page 32. If you go to the right door, turn to page 57." It'd go on like that until "you" were killed or reached the end of the adventure. Roleplaying is just like that, but with a short reply instead of multiple choice. In the end, roleplaying is just a vaguely organised way of sitting around having a chat and telling tall stories. People have been doing that in bars, cafes and parties for centuries.

The other thing to bear in mind is that other gamers are like you - they have other interests, somewhat related to their gaming interests. So perhaps in your town there's no tabletop D&D group (for example). But maybe there's a yahoo group list of Vampire LARPers, with 13 members. Contact them - chances are, 3 or 4 of them are into tabletop gaming, too, and of those 3 or 4, at least 1 of them will give your D&D game a go. The same goes for fan clubs of Lord of the Rings, and so on. Local bookstores will often have book clubs, and there are scifi book clubs everywhere, too. One particularly rich place to mine for roleplayers is among computer gamers - many people play computer rpgs or wargames, and would love to play with other people; they only use the machine because they've no people.

Notice that in WoW and these other games, many of the players try to form little groups with others, people they always adventure with. If someone's character dies, they meet up with the new one, too. They're forming a game group. So sure, they're playing in a game with 100,000 players - but they're not playing with 100,000 players, they're playing with 3 or 5 players. Just like a regular tabletop game group. So to tell those guys that you should meet around a table - it's not a big leap for them. They're already playing with  3 to 5 others, the other 100,000 players are no more real to them than your GM's NPCs.

People are essentially social. It's why we create forums, chat rooms, and groups within big games like WoW. Use that when you're pitching tabletop roleplaying to them, use it for the sale. It's a principle in marketing that when describing your product, focus on its strengths, not its weaknesses. The strengths of tabletop roleplaying are that it's social; the weaknesses are that there aren't constant pretty pictures. So when talking to computer gamers, talk up the social side.

The strength of novels are that they provide a coherent story. The weakness is that the reader has no influence over the outcome of the story. In roleplaying, the weakness is that often the story isn't very coherent; but at least you can influence it! You can see that people really want to influence the outcome of stories - just look at forums whenever some sequel to a movie or a book is coming out, people are arguing about what will or should happen next. So, when talking to people who read novels, talk up the fact that you get to determine what happens next.

And so on. Consider what roleplaying has to offer, its strengths and weaknesses compared to other forms of entertainment.


Keep Up the Effort

If you're looking for a group, decide what time you'd like to play, and until you do have that group, use that particular time to look for one. So if you want to game every Sunday afternoon from 1pm to 7pm, spend every Sun 1-7 looking for a game group. Then forget about it the rest of the week. Concentrated effort on a regular basis brings better results. And having a break from it lets you return refreshed and with new ideas and enthusiasm. Just idly surfing the net each day and putting notices here and there whenever it occurs to you, you'll end up doing very little. So, choose your gaming time, and until it's a gaming time, making it a finding time.

I don't play any of the computer based rogs- or any computer/video games at all. I've tried, but I get bored pretty quickly.
But, to be completely honest, I don't feel any responsibility to the Table top RPG hobby. I don't feel any need to make new players, or to push the hobby or save the hobby or any of that. I just like to kill stuff and burn stuff down; so as long as I have a group- I'm good.

Quote from: AosBut, to be completely honest, I don't feel any responsibility to the Table top RPG hobby. I don't feel any need to make new players, or to push the hobby or save the hobby or any of that. I just like to kill stuff and burn stuff down; so as long as I have a group- I'm good.

You mistake me. I do not think anyone has a duty to roleplaying or any nonsense like that.

I do think that many people are without game groups because they focus on recruiting people who are already gamers, rather than making new gamers. It'd be a bit like only dating girls who have been married before, or the social soccer team at work only accepting people who'd played soccer before. It just limits you.

And I do think it's good to play with a variety of people. Recruiting non-gamers lets me have more variety than if I stick to people already gamers. They don't have any baggage of D&D or Forge or any crap like that. They come with a fresh and open mind.

I wasn't directing that at you, actually. It was more genrally directed at the pundit whose always taking about the good of the hobby...

Quote from: joewolzThere will always be some of us real gamers around.  We can introduce friends to the hobby, or at least to our games.

It will never go away.  Computers can't replicate the experience.

I agree.  As a friend of mine so eloquently put it, "Until (my character) can pick a booger and wipe it on someone's back, video games will never replace RPGs."  

I think the freedom of action is what sets RPGs apart from other games.  You can do anything, go anywhere, say anything to an NPC and receive the proper reaction.  Even the best video games have a lot of places (buildings, trees, vehicles, etc.) you can't really interact with.  Not to mention the creative use of powers if the game has magic.  

Pete