Certain people have argued, both before and now, that the advent of the Computer and computer technology has effectively killed the Tabletop RPG, as in doomed it to obscurity.

Now, part of what helps the argument against these people is that they were the same naysayers and pessimists that were claiming that back in the days of the 386; fuck, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were claiming that the RPG was dead back when the Apple IIe came out...

Nevermind also that some of these people are Story-based Swine, still resentful over the collapse of their attempted takeover of the hobby...

But mainly, the issue comes down to one of defining what our hobby is, and what counts as "dead".  To me the hobby is  more than just a question of the rules; its also a question of the delivery.  Playing chess with a board, sitting face to face with someone, is not the same as playing chess on a computer, even if its online watching the other guy on a webcam.  There's a loss of a social element.

And that social element cannot be simulated via computer, at least not until such time as we have full-scale "virtual rooms" that capture all of the five senses; and at that point, we'd STILL just be playing Tabletop RPGs, just in virtual reality.

So the real question, then, is how many people constitute a "living" hobby.  I agree that its not enough to say "well, someone will still be playing it somewhere". That's insufficient.

To me, the real question is one of generational replenishment. Bringing in new players, new younger players, who will appreciate Tabletop RPGs as a different kind of hobby from computer games.
I don't think that the failure to have done so at this point is to blame on technology and its appeal; its to blame on the failure of creativity on the part of the real and the so-called "industry".

RPGPundit

There are more people playing WoW than WoD -> RPGs are dead. That's the usualy line of argument, substitute your favorite computer entertainment or role-playing game for one of the two variables.

Yawn. It's all a very modern obsession. Some stuff is "in", some is "out", statistics are given to prove one thing or the exact opposite and in the end nothing really changes. Most statements of this nature don't have a scientific backbone in their body of arguments. In the end, we've got the economical equivalent to the "game theory" crap.

Quote from: SosthenesYawn.

That's pretty much my entire reaction to these sorts of debates.

People still read books, go to the theatre, listen to the radio, go to the movies, watch TV... go for walks, camping, fishing, play sports, dress up for Halloween... blah blah blah...

Computer games are a new medium.  That doesn't mean the old mediums go away.

Boardgames are seeing a bit of a renaissance right now, despite the growth of the videogame industry.

Troubles with the RPG industry has less to do with videogames and more to do with the RPGs themselves, and how they're marketed.

Quote from: jrientsThat's pretty much my entire reaction to these sorts of debates.

Actually, I lied.  I do have one other reaction to these sorts of deabtes.  I ask myself a question:

Why hasn't online chess replaced face-to-face play?  Computerized chess has done a much better job of simulating everything that can happen at the chess table.  Why is it still easy to find opponents for face-to-face play?

The latest set of D&D adverts sum up my feelings on this.

However the latest generation of MMOs are becoming more social, particularly if the players are all hooked up with mikes and headphones.

Well ... I play traditional RPGs all hooked up with mikes and keyboards. Skype has changed the way I game. I'm still good for face-to-face gaming and do it with moderate regularity (my F2F group is on hiatus until the end of the year)--but modern-technology has changed the way I game.

I know this thread is about MMPORGS and such but I think it bears note that the same technology that enables those games also enables traditional games. I can, and do, game with people all over the country--in some cases, all over the globe. That's a powerful benefit.

The problem of living in nowhere-ville with no GMs can be resolved using the Internet. That's a powerful boost for traditional RPGs.

-Marco

I'd definitely agree that the social element is what makes the tabletop experience second-to-none in any sort of gaming, be it boardgaming, minis or RPGs.

I'm not sure what could be done to expand the number of people in the hobby.  RPGs are hard to explain to folks who don't game, or only game casually.

There will always be some of us real gamers around.  We can introduce friends to the hobby, or at least to our games.

It will never go away.  Computers can't replicate the experience.

I say neither. Well..

..ok. I'll engage on this one.

I think it kills everything but D&D.

See, it's already hard to find a group if you aren't playing D&D. So what's the next best thing? The MMO. And if you hate the MMOs that are out there? Your'e double-screwed. If you *don't* play D&D, this is the proverbial extinction level event.

On the other hand, back in D&D land- it's a different story.   First of all, you probably can find people to play with. When I started my latest campaign, I had to turn away people. But let's be perverse and say there's some D&D loving guys who can't find a group. Whats the next best thing? Also an MMO.

..Probably an MMO full of people who love fantasy, and like playing characters with hit points and levels and all of that stuff.

On top of that, it has become socially acceptable to talk about this MMO. There's two guys in the next cube talking about World of Warcraft as I type this right now. I'm reasonably sure I could invite either of those guys into my Thursday night game, give them a quick D&D primer and they'd get into it with no problem. We're not fairy-ing around or play-acting or moralizing or exploring themes or any of that weak-kneed crap. We're having epic adventures of kickassedness. I don't happen to have any room in my game right now, but I'm sure it could be done.

So- my take on the MMORPG-- it's the end of the world for SOME of you.

Quote from: Abyssal MawSee, it's already hard to find a group if you aren't playing D&D. So what's the next best thing? The MMO. And if you hate the MMOs that are out there? Your'e double-screwed. If you *don't* play D&D, this is the proverbial extinction level event.

Perhaps in your neck of the woods: over here, though, folks are still asking me to run CoC and Mage and Sailor Moon. And while it's true that there's no MMORPG substitute for Nobilis, IRC makes finding players for online sessions very easy indeed.

Quote from: jrientsWhy hasn't online chess replaced face-to-face play?  Computerized chess has done a much better job of simulating everything that can happen at the chess table.  Why is it still easy to find opponents for face-to-face play?

Funny thing is, hasn't computerized chess GROWN the chess playing community. Isn't there a huge online chess community? With most everyone of them spoiling for a face to face game or tourney?

I think a lot of people are basically worried that multiplayer computer games will eventually put RPGs in the same place that RPGs put old-school (non-Warhammer) tabletop wargaming back in the late 70s and early 80s.

That is: No new blood combined with increasingly rare, expensive and niche product releases. Plus the negative reputation of a minute, constantly-shrinking hobby for old beardy men with too much cash.

People should start looking at tech as an ally instead of an enemy.

Better products and better run companies never hurt, either.

Traditional Rpg's and computer games, be it MMO's, Crpg's, FPS, you name it, make for completely different experiences, I play A LOT, I mean A LOT of Pc games, and still I can't compare it to traditional rpg's, pc gaming is for when I'm at home alone, and rpg's are a social activity to enjoy with friends.
Traditional gaming and video gaming are IMO two different hobbies.
IE I've been adicted to video games since I was around 5 years old, then around the age of 10 I started playing basketball, and it became my main hobby, I began to arrive to the club 2 hours before training and leave an hour after training ends, but yet I didn't stop playing video games, maybe I played a little less (very little) because it filled a different necesity than basketball.
So I say that two different hobbies can't "kill" each other.