Quote from: THE_Leopold on November 13, 2024, 04:09:58 PMThis is the job of the DM to help unify those stories and come up with some reasons why. So much story can be generated from this type of seed. 

I'm not responsible for your orgasm.  You want to be a frustrated novelist do it somewhere else.

Not sure why you included #2 since I already said that.

People always forget them and I am too busy to keep track of all that on top of running the game.

I think its an early strage guideline for players to get an early start to who their characters are, its a minor inspiration. I agree that players may not use them, or even read them, but its a stepping stone to what brought their characters are now (i write this as a forever GM)

It always seemed to me that they had attempted to shift alignment over to this sort of thing but alignment is still there so apparently it didn't catch on.

Quote from: zircher on November 11, 2024, 12:04:36 PMInteresting, I recently played Fabula Ultima which has a bonds system.  But, that one is invoked by the players (and potentially vetoed by the GM.)  That puts the burden of using on the players except for the negative ones that the GM usually calls out.  So, the system shares the load with with whole table.  There's also a meta currency involved so it is not abused and to encourage PCs to inflict bad bonds on their characters.

This seems like the best way to incorporate a bond system—have it be used by the players, not the DM. The 5e bonds/flaws/ideals system is a totally weak idea (how is the GM expected to memorize each of the players' B/F/Is?) and probably the most justifiably ignored rule in modern dnd

My DM, who is very good, certainly does pay attention to Ideals, Bonds, Flaws as long as the player does.

So any time you do something in line with that, he will notice & make a small mention or embellishment.
I dont know how he manages to remember or be aware of that when I barely do for my own char.

As a player I find them difficult to follow. When I make the character i pick things i like, but later decide that is hard to roleplay or puts me in contest with others (intolerant of other religions) = it sounds cool & edgy, but I feel like a knob if I pick on a cleric about that.

As a DM im sorry to say I dont pay attention to it unless its mentioned.

Overall, i think its a useful guide for players, but theres too many otger things to worry about in 5e.

In Mork Borg when you get a Terrible Trait or Bad Habit, everyone is all over that playing it up to the max.

Why is that?

Not sure I get why this is so hard for DMs to keep track of. Do you not know things about the PCs in your game?

For every game I run I have an index card for every PC. It has their name and other relevant info on it and it gets stuck right on my GM screen. For D&D characters this includes things like alignment, BIFs, passive perception/investigation scores, dark vision and range, languages known, special boons from their backgrounds, etc. I'll add notes to it as we play like which NPCs they have met, who they made enemies of and and class passive abilities as they level.

Quote from: rgalex on December 05, 2024, 03:22:41 PMNot sure I get why this is so hard for DMs to keep track of. Do you not know things about the PCs in your game?

I normally run status quo open table sandbox campaigns and prefer to maintain a Rawlsian Veil of Ignorance - I'm generally actively trying to avoid metagame tailoring of the campaign setting to the PCs.  This is one reason I mostly prefer to drop published adventures into the setting & use procedural generation for a lot of the other content. I do note diagetic stuff like PC allies & enemies.

Quote from: S'mon on December 06, 2024, 09:15:32 AM

Quote from: rgalex on December 05, 2024, 03:22:41 PMNot sure I get why this is so hard for DMs to keep track of. Do you not know things about the PCs in your game?

I normally run status quo open table sandbox campaigns and prefer to maintain a Rawlsian Veil of Ignorance - I'm generally actively trying to avoid metagame tailoring of the campaign setting to the PCs.  This is one reason I mostly prefer to drop published adventures into the setting & use procedural generation for a lot of the other content. I do note diagetic stuff like PC allies & enemies.

Greetings!

I have used the Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws thing in my campaigns. The Players use them as well. As a DM, I find them especially useful as a kind of short-hand profile for NPC's individual personalities and characterizations. It's been fine. This little subsystem from 5E reminds me of the old Personality Charts and Tables from Gygax in the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. And yes, I also still use my ancient copy of AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. It is an excellent resource! It is also worthwhile to point out that the original 5E DM's Guide is a good resource as well, with lots of useful advice, tables and such like.

NOTE: S'mon! *Laughing* What the hell is "Diagetic"? Yes, I like learning new vocabulary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on December 06, 2024, 10:13:58 AM

Quote from: S'mon on December 06, 2024, 09:15:32 AM

Quote from: rgalex on December 05, 2024, 03:22:41 PMNot sure I get why this is so hard for DMs to keep track of. Do you not know things about the PCs in your game?

I normally run status quo open table sandbox campaigns and prefer to maintain a Rawlsian Veil of Ignorance - I'm generally actively trying to avoid metagame tailoring of the campaign setting to the PCs.  This is one reason I mostly prefer to drop published adventures into the setting & use procedural generation for a lot of the other content. I do note diagetic stuff like PC allies & enemies.

Greetings!

I have used the Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws thing in my campaigns. The Players use them as well. As a DM, I find them especially useful as a kind of short-hand profile for NPC's individual personalities and characterizations. It's been fine. This little subsystem from 5E reminds me of the old Personality Charts and Tables from Gygax in the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. And yes, I also still use my ancient copy of AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. It is an excellent resource! It is also worthwhile to point out that the original 5E DM's Guide is a good resource as well, with lots of useful advice, tables and such like.

NOTE: S'mon! *Laughing* What the hell is "Diagetic"? Yes, I like learning new vocabulary!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Definitely agree about the 1e DMG! It's pretty much my default game reference for fantasy settings.

Diagetic - (of sound in a film, television programme, etc.) occurring within the context of the story and able to be heard by the characters - "the music used is strictly diegetic" - more broadly, it's stuff that clearly exists in the game world, like who a PC's allies are, as opposed to at the meta level. A PC can say "X is my ally" where they would not likely say "My Bonds are X, my Ideals Y, my Flaws Z".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diegetic especially : existing or occurring within the world of a narrative rather than as something external to that world

sort of. not running 5e, but players can choose to have a virtue but then accept a flaw, can choose to have an ally but then must accept an enemy.

If I'm looking for levers, these are there for me and players can invoke them themselves and remind me. they get bonuses using them

EDIT: they can also have bonds between them, but they need to be "earned" during play. it makes helping the other PC easier but doing leaving them (like to attack someone else you have a grudge against while they need help) harder

I use values and taboos based on the God the character chooses to worship.  Clerics get a weapon they have proficiency with and an extra spell to the God (pick from one of 2 spells).  To maintain it, they need to stay within the general range of the gods values not not break taboos.

God of travel
values:
freedom of journey where you travel and help others to travel
embrace change, where you are open to new experiences

taboo:
Will not settle down long term in one area.  Periods of rest are ok.  If stay too long it will require a pilgrimate of at least half a year of travel lighting the shrines of travel.

Weapon: Longbow
Spell: Long Strider or Zephyr Strike

when i make a character i use them all the time, though i make my own as im making my character. It helps me develop who the characters are.