Quote from: Iron_Rain;842051+1

In Exalted PC's would hide that they were wearing orichalcum armor, but otherwise, very few games I've played in has "hiding armor" or "armor control laws" been a thing.

It was in Shadowrun. I used to cover my light body armour under street clothes and jackets. There was also the disguised body armour tailored to look like fine suits and dresses.

Quote from: Sommerjon;842093If that is what makes you shudder in ecstasy, you go girl.

Man, you really seem hung up on sexual imagery over the net.  Sure you rather wouldn't be over on alt.porn or Literotica with the rest of the deviants?  Don't let us interfere with your whackoff sessions.

QuoteSee I find it laughable that people have no problem with walking corpses strolling down main street, but drop the suspension of disbelief card when a PC wants to wear armor in town.  You want your rule system to reflect reality, only where and when you want it to.

Don't you?  Let's take that sticky rant, shall we?  If I was a player at your table, and I said that I just plain dodged those dozen crossbowmen, because I just didn't see any reason why they'd hit me, you'd likely tell me that there was no way I was dodging a dozen bolts at once.  If I said that I closed the 50' gap between me and the firing line in a single jump to cut apart the bowman, you'd likely tell me that it wasn't realistic for an Olympic long jumper to pull that off, or some such.  If I said that it would take only a single dagger slash apiece to kill them all, you might tell me to hold my horses, and when did I get super strength?

Yeah, well, why not?  You're already saying that you don't give a shit about realism, because it's fantasy.  So how come I can't do a 50' broad jump?  That the type of argument you appreciate around your table?

In general, I think it's fine for PCs to wear armor because it *is* realistic.  It doesn't match every historical period, but it is a good fit for the sort of dangerous fantasy world being portrayed - which is far from a peaceful modern city with police.

The type of unrealism that I find most annoying is when both of these happen:
1) When the PCs walk around with armor and start shaking down some shopkeeper, then very quickly there is a well-armed watch who come in force to deal with them.

and

2) When the PCs encounter a pack of wererats causing trouble, they are on their own - no watch shows up to help them deal with the threat.


In a given world, sure, big cities may be peaceful places where the citizens live in harmony.  However, in D&D I'm more used to cities being similar to how they are portrayed in 1st ed AD&D - with random encounters with monsters, crime, and other threats present.

Quote from: Omega;842119It was in Shadowrun. I used to cover my light body armour under street clothes and jackets. There was also the disguised body armour tailored to look like fine suits and dresses.

An armored jacket in Shadowrun is acceptable just about anywhere except social gatherings.

Hell, if you check out some of the fashion and social splats, they actually have original and mods for armor and weapons that are specifically designed to be high fashion and trendy, to the point that wearing it to a trending nightclub would be totally cool.

Quote from: Ravenswing;842486Man, you really seem hung up on sexual imagery over the net.  Sure you rather wouldn't be over on alt.porn or Literotica with the rest of the deviants?  Don't let us interfere with your whackoff sessions.

I'm not allowed to be here as well as there?  Are we not allowed multiple diversions?

Quote from: Ravenswing;842486Don't you?  Let's take that sticky rant, shall we?  If I was a player at your table, and I said that I just plain dodged those dozen crossbowmen, because I just didn't see any reason why they'd hit me, you'd likely tell me that there was no way I was dodging a dozen bolts at once.  If I said that I closed the 50' gap between me and the firing line in a single jump to cut apart the bowman, you'd likely tell me that it wasn't realistic for an Olympic long jumper to pull that off, or some such.  If I said that it would take only a single dagger slash apiece to kill them all, you might tell me to hold my horses, and when did I get super strength?

Yeah, well, why not?  You're already saying that you don't give a shit about realism, because it's fantasy.  So how come I can't do a 50' broad jump?  That the type of argument you appreciate around your table?

Funny how quickly this morphs from wearing armor in town to:

• Dodging whatever, whenever I want
• Killing whatever, whenever I want

Isn't that Outrage hyperbole a bit much?

Funny thing is, some systems do allow for; that 50' jump, killing with one blow vs multiple npcs, and dodging all attacks.

Never said I didn't give a shit about realism.
Realism has nothing to do with wearing armor in town in Fantasy Games. it's about 2 things:
1. Historical contexts; Sorry we are talking Fantasy
2. Limiting player choice; Ding Ding we have a winner folks

Pundy set the parameters in the OP

Quote from: RPGPundit;841352Of course, this is totally ridiculous from any kind of 'historical' perspective.

Do you usually do things like this in your fantasy games? Or do your fantasy-medieval cities actually have weapon/armor control laws?

in your Fantasy Games.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;842517An armored jacket in Shadowrun is acceptable just about anywhere except social gatherings.

Hell, if you check out some of the fashion and social splats, they actually have original and mods for armor and weapons that are specifically designed to be high fashion and trendy, to the point that wearing it to a trending nightclub would be totally cool.

The fact that people in Shadowrun actually had good reason to go to social parties wearing armor disguised as clothes says alot about the lethality of the setting.

At times Shadowrun felt like it was just on the brink of becoming Dark Sun.

Thinking about it, all my recent games have taken place in borderlands-type areas where even if there are cities, there is dangerous wilderness within a short distance of the city walls, and it's normal and expected for warriors to wear armour. I can imagine having medieval French/English type restrictions in the heart of powerful lawful states, Greyhawk's Great Kingdom or Nyrond perhaps, but games don't generally take place there. If I were to run an urban campaign again like my old 1e Lankhmar game it might be different. The closest I can think of is my Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, but that Paizo AP starts with the PCs being seconded to the City Guard, justifying armoured PCs. I did wonder a bit about the plausibility of the Bard with the 10' halberd though...

Quote from: Omega;842619The fact that people in Shadowrun actually had good reason to go to social parties wearing armor disguised as clothes says alot about the lethality of the setting.

At times Shadowrun felt like it was just on the brink of becoming Dark Sun.

Probably says more about the lethality of the presumed activities the characters will engage in than about the setting per se.

That brings up a relevant point, though - if the DM is regularly putting the PCs into situations where they feel that they need to walk around town wearing armour, maybe the issue isn't with how realistic it is that they would walk around in armour, but how realistic it is that they would feel constantly threatened in town.

Quote from: Ddogwood;842690...maybe the issue isn't with how realistic it is that they would walk around in armour, but how realistic it is that they would feel constantly threatened in town.

It may be, but even if it isn't unrealistic the feeling of danger is exacerbated by the common play style of not playing out every hour or day of game time.  

For example, on a per stay basis, the PCs in my Honor+Intrigue game are seldom attacked while stopping in an inn. However since most days of staying in an inn where nothing particularly interesting happens are skipped, the subjective experience of staying in an inn feels much more deadly to the players than it likely would seem to their characters.

I deal with it by telling people that in anything as big as a small town, they aren't going to be suddenly jumped by large numbers of armored warriors or gangs of monsters, and sticking with it.

If something DOES happen in town, the attackers will not be any more armored than the PCs are.

And if the PCs start trouble with the authorities, I have no trouble letting the chips fall where they may.

(I think 'betrayal' is horribly overused in RPGs, so I don't use a lot of 'towns lure you in to kill or rob you' sort of thing.)

Quote from: jhkim;842495The type of unrealism that I find most annoying is when both of these happen:
1) When the PCs walk around with armor and start shaking down some shopkeeper, then very quickly there is a well-armed watch who come in force to deal with them.

and

2) When the PCs encounter a pack of wererats causing trouble, they are on their own - no watch shows up to help them deal with the threat.

Why would that seem unrealistic to you, let alone annoy you? The shopkeeper undoubtedly pays for protection, and the PCs almost certainly don't. The security guard at the mall isn't going to help you with wererats, either.

Quote from: Old Geezer;842731I deal with it by telling people that in anything as big as a small town, they aren't going to be suddenly jumped by large numbers of armored warriors or gangs of monsters, and sticking with it.

If something DOES happen in town, the attackers will not be any more armored than the PCs are.

And if the PCs start trouble with the authorities, I have no trouble letting the chips fall where they may.

(I think 'betrayal' is horribly overused in RPGs, so I don't use a lot of 'towns lure you in to kill or rob you' sort of thing.)

I always took it as a sign of shitty DMing when the DM went out of his way to contrive situations where the PCs have to leave behind weapons, armor and other gear for the express purpose of screwing them over...

And then whine when the PCs refuse to take the bait again. You can always tell because while the shitty DM makes damn sure to arrange it so the PCs can be attacked sans armor, the PCs don't get similar opportunities. It's like the DM who whines about the PCs refusing to add NPCs to the party after he's screwed them with the same ruse as before.

Otherwise, it boils down to the type of city and the type of armor. Padded (because it can be made to look like clothing) and chainmail (because it can be worn under clothing -Saladin had mail woven into several of his formal outfits because he feared assassination) shouldn't be a problem even if arms and armor are restricted because what the powers that be don't see won't bother them. Full plate armor would be a different matter, though.

As for "realism", in most cities of the Middle Ages it was common for those with means to not only walk the streets armed, but to have a bunch of armed retainers as well -especially in Italy (see Romeo & Juliet).

Quote from: Elfdart;842835...As for "realism", in most cities of the Middle Ages it was common for those with means to not only walk the streets armed, but to have a bunch of armed retainers as well -especially in Italy (see Romeo & Juliet).

Yes, even into some settings in the 19th Century (and the roughest ones in the 20th and 21st), armed people who behave appropriately have been allowed to be armed, and may even be respected. Who's allowed to go about in an armed gang has a lot to do with social status (even in the "1st World" in the 20th & 21st Centuries, if you have _enough_ status _and_ discretion _and_ behave well, you can carry weapons and have armed bodyguards. But even Vladimir Putin isn't going to get away with directly threatening merchants with violence, and he's far too smart and socially-adept to do that, directly... (and it'd usually be pointless or at least unwise/silly).

Stereotypical fantasy RPG scenarios (as easily found in CRPG's for example) also over-do the world's disrespect for competent warriors. The foundation of medieval social status was martial ability - the nobles who emerged from the Dark Ages were the best warriors and warlords. A skilled warrior decked out in arms and armor is respected, feared, and valuable... at least until he starts behaving like a maniac and/or like he's being run by a modern teenager... But the typical (C)RPG formula is to fairly disrespect them, whilst also having a plot that expects them to save everyone...

Quote from: Elfdart;842835As for "realism", in most cities of the Middle Ages it was common for those with means to not only walk the streets armed, but to have a bunch of armed retainers as well -especially in Italy (see Romeo & Juliet).

Side arms? Of course. A gentlebeing has to defend their honor after all. Plate armor, helm, and halberd...mmm...not so much.

Quote from: Bren;842946Side arms? Of course. A gentlebeing has to defend their honor after all. Plate armor, helm, and halberd...mmm...not so much.

Precisely, armed (with sidearms) is one thing, armoured and carrying heavy weapons is something else entirely.

Restrictions on the wearing of armour in settlements go back to at least the time of Greek colonisation in the 6th century BC, likely before that even.