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Do your PCs walk around town in armor?

Started by RPGPundit, July 13, 2015, 02:29:26 AM

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LordVreeg

Of course not.
That's ridiculous.  Rules and laws and social customs make the idea somewhat idiotic.

For Example, this is from the basic information page on Igbar.

"The 'Rule of Reach' states that bows and two handed weapons cannot be carried within the city walls without a Scarlet Pilum escort or a letter of exemption from the Lower House of the Unicorn.  And it is incredibly gauche to walk around with real weaponry in town...
The Orcash and Klaxik fashion of men shaving their heads which started in the North has reached here recently.  Mainly by young folk and at the lower classes, seen more in the Dockside and the Bastion.
The Gates are open from Ma'Sue to Ta'Sue, or Sunup to Sundown.  This is counted from when Gerin, the first sun rises and sets, not the full daylight, which is almost two hours shorter..  The Scarlet Pilums judge this from the bronze dome of the Steel Libram, and most others people in town do as well, though there are 3 artificed public clocks in town as well.   After Dark, there are bells outside each gate, but only those with official paperwork or who are known to the Scarlet Pilums on duty will be let in.  Most knights and bards from Igbar are known and have paperwork...
Current fashion in the city is running towards 'shiny' fabrics, and women's fashions tend toward gowns that go to mid calf, with a half corset on the outside.  Headgear is a must for the fashionable Igbarian lady, often in a fan shape.  Men's fashion is very martial, with fitted leather armor being normal wear, and a tabard (again in those shiny fabrics for the fashionable Igbarian male) being cinched by a belt.   This does NOT mean that heavy armors are acceptable in town.  Maybe Chain Maille, in town.  In a real social situation, even that is too much.  Chained Leather or some such, but made to go with the tabard.  Please note that female combatants often combine the two to some level, and that this is considered respectable, but not very attractive
. "
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AsenRG

Quote from: soltakss;841396In any case, armour wouldn't protect them from Krarsht courtesan-assassins with the Sweat Acid spell. Although, many players would rather get a few skin burns than lose their enchanted iron armour.
Wouldn't acid corrode the iron armour as well?

Quote from: JRT;841397One of the things I noticed conversely is that a lot of writers were writing that weapons had to be "peace-knotted" in major fantasy cities.  In history, Armor was not usually worn but everybody had a weapon, even free peasants were usually allowed to have a simple dagger or knife.  

People tend to look at the modern day gun control laws and assume that's the norm--but people forget towns didn't really have anything close to a police department.  If you read the original DMG, the City watch is mostly volunteers, with the Guard being the military force and not usually protecting the ordinary citizens from crime.  

I gave Gary Gygax some notes on this which he expanded on and put in Living Fantasy, the book he wrote for TLG about how a typical Eurocentric Fantasy would would work.  We commented on the armor (outside of an actual Knight, walking around in armor in the city is akin to showing up in riot gear at the mall), and this weapon stuff.

But then again, a lot of people forget about the social-economic stuff in fantasy--that in a Feudalistic society there's a lot of limitations to your class and social standing.  I wish more people took a good look at this kind of thing.
Well, some of us do, my PCs usually stick to having weapons and no armour, though.

Quote from: jeff37923;841398I have the same problem in science fiction games, there is always one Jayne Cobb guy who tries to walk around in powered armor bristling with guns.

In any case, it usually ends up with the PCs encountering the authorities and being asked why they are wearing the armor and if they are expecting to be engaging in violence. I have a lot of NPCs just avoid them when they do that because nobody wants to deal with someone ready for violence 24/7. It only makes sense if it is a war zone, and even then you have to have rear areas where the chance of violence is minimal.
In most SF, that's just insane, since there is actual law enforcement organisations!
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Kiero

Quote from: JeremyR;841378Well, the idea that a fantasy city in a world where there are monsters and magic would be even vaguely "historical" is completely ridiculous.

I mean, really, if you lived in a place where at any moment something nasty might try to kill you, you'd be prepared for it.

And that's generally why PCs wear armor/weapons in town, because they know that if they don't, whenever a monster comes across them they will be at a severe disadvantage.

PCs also don't have plot armor like characters in fantasy novels/stories...

The fact that it's a fantasy world with magic and monsters in it doesn't change the fact that armour is hot and uncomfortable to wear for long periods of time, especially the really heavy stuff.
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Juisarian

Quote from: JRT;841397(outside of an actual Knight, walking around in armor in the city is akin to showing up in riot gear at the mall

I expect knights didn't wear armour day-to-day in the real world either.

Gronan of Simmerya

I find the way to stop players from rattling around in my OD&D world in full armor everywhere is

i) assume they aren't

and

ii) let precautions be effective

The NPC knights are not wandering around town armed cap-a-pie and they survived the night; therefore, the PCs can as well.

Now, wilderness is a different matter, but that's why it's wilderness.
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AsenRG

Quote from: Juisarian;841429I expect knights didn't wear armour day-to-day in the real world either.

Not plate, but they sure wore lighter armour most of the time ot of their homes or the homes of other nobles. Part of a knight's training is learning to dance in full armour, after all.
Of course, most PCs aren't knights and lack such training!
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Ddogwood

It's ridiculous from a historical perspective, but IME most fantasy games are really about modern people wandering around in a faux-medieval setting.  If I were going for a more authentic feel, I'd probably put in more restrictions about weapons and armour in town.

Do characters in most fantasy video games ever take off their armour in town?

mAcular Chaotic

Video games. You answered the question.
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tenbones

My new PC's usually do for the reasons cited above. After a session of them paying the social price of walking around in their gear, fully armed to the teeth obviously prepared for bloody battle, the inability to interact with people leery of such individuals, or the inability to get into certain places for security reasons, or the outright avoidance of such characters, usually is enough to break them of the habit.

Of course I moderate that with the sort of locale they might be in. Some frontier town or village - it's not a problem.

I always laugh at the noob PC that tries to sleep in their armor... bwahahaha. Sure go for it.

You may not like the result.

GreyICE

It depends on the setting, city, and type of armor.  

I usually assume that the average D&D world is about like a war-torn medieval setting.  The sort of setting where rule of law is a welcome relief rather than an expected standard, where your city getting invaded or sacked would not be unexpected, and where deserters turned bandit (the likely source for many bandits) were common.

So in this sort of setting, carrying around a sword would not be unexpected.  Wearing armor is not unexpected.  Cities where you're expected to be disarmed and the populace expects protection are the minority.  And even there, seeing armored individuals is not unusual.  

Furthermore, adventurers have a reputation.  For the most part, it's an advantage for them to stand out.  People who want to hire someone looking for trouble know who to talk to (it's that group that doesn't blend), and most guards give them a fairly wide berth.  After all they'll be out of there soon enough.

I usually assume the following:

Leather - boiled Leather is not necessarily inconspicuous, but it's not super unexpected.   It's a dangerous world.  And boiled leather can be fitted.

Chain mail - can actually be concealed under a shirt and standard travelers cloak (remember, cloaks were super common for travelers).  You'll always look bulky, but this is not impossible.

Breastplates - for the most part, someone wandering around in a breastplate sticks out, but again, I don't think it would be too unusual for anywhere but a major city.

Full Plate - Again, who is it?  Is it a paladin of a holy order?  Sure, wear full plate.  You stick out, but you're a fucking Paladin, you stick out anyway, and who is going to laugh at you?

I mean realism is great and all, but you need to be realistic to the setting.  If it's the sort of setting where demons getting gated into the city is not super unusual, people will not be surprised others are armed.  Think of shots of anywhere war-torn (Iraq, Rwanda, Palestine, etc.).  Seeing two people chatting with AKs propped against a wall is not super unusual.

jhkim

Quote from: AsenRG;841433Not plate, but they sure wore lighter armour most of the time ot of their homes or the homes of other nobles. Part of a knight's training is learning to dance in full armour, after all.

Of course, most PCs aren't knights and lack such training!
While most PCs aren't knights, the ones with heavy armor generally have equivalent training in it.  This is explicit in later editions as armor proficiency.

In my experience, most D&D worlds aren't actually feudal with that particular strict social hierarchy.  Even big civilized cities have problems of monsters turning up - as the PCs regularly discover with city encounters, hence their desire to stay armored up.  As a result, though, NPCs tend to react to them as heroic monster-slayers rather than as thugs.  i.e. "Whew!  Here's someone ready to protect us from marauding monsters."  Particularly after a few levels, PCs tend to have a reputation as monster-slayers that precedes them.

flyingcircus

Yes they do, but I can't fault them considering almost every fantasy cartoon, movie or video game has people walking around fully armored all the time.
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Cave Bear

If I wanted to be realistic, I'd impose penalties to reaction rolls for player characters in armor, but that would just make the game even more hack-and-slash.
And I'm still looking for good fatigue rules that aren't too complex...

Baulderstone

Depends on the game and campaign. If I am running DCC, then, they probably will wear armor 24/7. If I am running Runequest, then I'll probably try for a little more realism. Individual campaigns may vary.

soltakss

Quote from: AsenRG;841416
Quote from: soltakss;841396In any case, armour wouldn't protect them from Krarsht courtesan-assassins with the Sweat Acid spell. Although, many players would rather get a few skin burns than lose their enchanted iron armour.

Wouldn't acid corrode the iron armour as well?

That's the point - many players would sooner their PCs take off the iron armour and get more damage from the acid than take the chance of burning through their precious iron armour.
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