In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
I've been rolling a d6 daily for the wet season IMC - 1: lightning storm, 2-5: rain to overcast 6: sunny. That's about all I want. I saw someone with a 'weather die' - d6 with various weathers on it - which looked cool.
its usually sunny i will occasionally have other situations but i dont really track it i just decide to have it rain that day or something
its not very realistic but its good enough.
For my Harn game I use the weather tracker in there per Watch, a 4 hour time period. It's actually very well done. I kind of like generating things like weather and encounters. It makes the sandbox feel alive, ya know?
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you meticulously track the weather?
Yes.
I really like what weather can add to a game.
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
No, because I've stopped playing D&D.
However, in
Traveller a solar flare can really fuck up your ethically challenged merchant run.
It's all dark and stormy nights!
That's a running gag in my Warhammer games!
No, but I would if it fit the adventure and if I had a really good, easy to use table for that.
Depending on the campaign, I usually either look up historical weather records or find software that can be used to generate a year's worth of weather at a time, taking past weather into account. While I have plenty of "roll on this table for weather" tables laying around, it bothers me that past weather has no influence on future weather, so I try to find better options.
And then, after being so careful about generating properly-realistic weather, half the time I forget to check what the weather for the current in-game day is. Even when I remember to check, it generally ends up being cosmetic because I hardly ever remember to apply any effects which might result from the weather.
I have a running campaign journal that I use to track PC activities. I have the weather conditions fairly mapped out about a couple months ahead of current campaign time and I fill in what the PCs are doing and let them know the general weather conditions each day.
Its handy to have as a reference in case of PCs using abilities to predict the weather, and since I don't really know what the PCs will be doing and when exactly, the weather for their activities is always a crap shoot. Sometimes it works out that important dramatic stuff just so happens to be taking place during a storm.
The game I run is set in the aftermath of what was more or less Ragnarok. Gods are dead, universe out of balance, vaults of heaven shattered, overworlds and earthly spheres unnaturally commingled, etc.
With no overgod to regulate it, weather is random, with effects ranging into the apocalyptic: rains of boiling blood; auroras of screaming, madness-inducing colors; whirlwinds of crystallized thought-forms connected by random arcs of lightning; etc.
So I definitely take weather into account and check for unnatural phenomena, as this reinforces the Moorcockian psychedelia I'm striving for. When stumped for ideas, I typically use the weather table from Elfmaids & Octopi's Planet Psychon (http://elfmaidsandoctopi.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/planet-psychons-wierd-wild-weather.html).
I think that the weather and environmental conditions are one of the most under-utilised aspects of gaming TBH. The weather makes a huge difference when you're out and about in today's world, let alone in medieval times. Add in that a lot of games require tracking to inhospitable places and it should be a real threat.
Then again, tracking the effects of hypothermia, or catching a nasty virus 'cos you got drenched in Death Swamp can be kinda boring to some in a table-top game, so i can understand why most people don't bother and most games only pay lip service to those kinds of problems.
I don't really track it, but mention it on occasion.
I don't use it nearly enough, but I started trying to do a better job in the last couple of sessions.
I got one of those nifty weather d6s and I use it on hexcrawls. Including weather effects changes the tactics of an encounter or scouting mission. For example, trying to hide from the giants in a grassland hex is a lot easier if the weather is foggy than sunny. Walking in the mountains can be much more treacherous in the rain.
I did want to track food and exposure to the elements as well, but the players said they weren't interested in including that in the game. Weather, on the other hand, added fun.
Weather is such a great way to easily add verisimilitude. And mood.
And it is funny, but while I always work with the weather (I have a chart modified by season modified by trend), I do the live game rolled while we are playing, but the online game is done way ahead of time.
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
I tried doing this a long time ago. For a stretch of a campaign, I tried using the system in the 1e Wilderness Survival Guide to track weather conditions. I quit because I didn't feel it was adding anything to the experience.
Now the only way I track weather is just to maybe add a weather condition to match the mood I'm looking for in the episode. I don't use any system to generate weather or to generate forecasts or anything.
Ocen voyages and long overland treks yes. Especially ocean voyages as I was used to that from BX D&D.
Other times an adventure is so short that the weather is not likely to change dramatically from start to finish. Others may have a change depending on what it was doing when the group went in and when they came back out.
Like its raining when they enter the dwarven mountain highway, but suns out by the time they make it to the other side.
Now Oriental Adventures on the other hand, tracked events more closely as it could have a impact on holdings and yearly events.
I'm notorious for it. The groans of the players when I broke out the Wilderness Survival Guide was like the music of angels to my ears. I collected their tears too for cocktails later.
These days I keep to general weather and seasons and regional climate patterns. But hell's yes I use weather. It will remarkably set the tone of a place if you drill it into them. It doesn't even have to be weather that's negative. I've often used beautiful weather, perfect environment, to make it seem peaceful and pleasant... and my players will have that stick in their memories.
One of the best adventures I've done with that is playing on the Shaar - which is like sub-saharan savannah. Dry and hot. And it was summer time - so the PC's were natives but stranded out there when their draft horses died in a gnoll attack. The environment was their new enemy and they had a hundred miles to cross to get home. Respect nature! It brings the mundane aspect of the world into full focus.
It's a wonderful GM tool.
For my Greyhawk campaign, I let this online weather generator (http://suuronen.eu/wf/). It implements the method from the Glossography in the 1983 box set — previously published in Dragon, I believe. I run the thing for a in-game month, take a screenshot, consult when needed. It's had pretty profound effects on the campaign, like heavy rains making rivers unfordable, then continuing for a few days and making travel impossible... and obliterating tracking information that would have been mighty useful to the party.
Wouldn't mind a similar gizmo for the Wilderness Survival Guide method...
it becomes a lot less important when your not on the material plane there is the occasional odd weather but quite often what is normal is deadly enough
Avernus has a forecast of high heat and great masses of fireballs hurtling through the sky
meanwhile torrent the 148th layer of the abyss is expecting thunderstorms and strong winds
Quote from: Barbatruc;826565For my Greyhawk campaign, I let this online weather generator (http://suuronen.eu/wf/). It implements the method from the Glossography in the 1983 box set — previously published in Dragon, I believe. I run the thing for a in-game month, take a screenshot, consult when needed. It's had pretty profound effects on the campaign, like heavy rains making rivers unfordable, then continuing for a few days and making travel impossible... and obliterating tracking information that would have been mighty useful to the party.
Wouldn't mind a similar gizmo for the Wilderness Survival Guide method...
That's pretty cool. That made me think, I wonder if someone did one for Harn. Sure enough, yep.
http://www.phantasia.org/miju/rpg/harn/generators.html
Of course I do. Honestly, I can't imagine how a GM would think that traps, enemy soldiers, pickpockets or diseases could be appropriate environmental/static things that can screw with a party, but that weather's either inappropriate or too much bother.
Say what? It's more trouble to determine precipitation/temperature/wind a day than to come up with umpteen one-shot throwaway -X to disarm Type Q poison needle traps?
Anyway, my parties travel a lot. The bulk of that travel is by sea. Weather impacts a lot of plots.
For instance, both my groups are in around the same place, and the rain/storm season has just hit. For the one group, the coup and subsequent rioting in the capital city has been heavily affected by the several days' worth of thunderstorms tending to keep the protesters indoors. A serious problem with the coup (and the PCs interacting with it) was the terrible hurricane last year that not only flattened Shanteytown -- with the PCs pitching in to help rebuild, and therefore gaining sympathetic ears in Shanteytown when the PCs wanted to gauge the level of unrest among the lower classes -- but the Hall of Records as well, causing horrible problems with trying to recreate the Kingdom's financial and tax records (those being burned by the losing side of the coup).
For the other group, attempting to rescue the one remaining member of the royal family not accounted for was seriously impeded by the weather -- the thunderstorms and high winds grounded the capital's saddle birds, and the princess was in the next province over. Let's just say they made some suboptimal decisions. :nono:
I use tables geared to the seasons, based loosely on Shadow World's charts -- unlike many other generators and tables, they reflect that a weather situation can last for days, and that a certain type of weather will usually follow a front. When I just want a fast determination, though, I just roll a d10 three times: once for temperature, once for precipitation, once for wind. Low = cold/lots of rain/little to no wind, High = scorching/dry/gales.
Love that generator, BTW, Barbatruc. Thanks for posting it.
I make reaction rolls. If the weather is hostile, you get whatever counts as the worst for the current season. If the weather is friendly, it's the best weather for that season. Follow up rolls are relative to the starting weather: it either gets better, worse, or stays the same.
Quote from: talysman;826617I make reaction rolls. If the weather is hostile, you get whatever counts as the worst for the current season. If the weather is friendly, it's the best weather for that season. Follow up rolls are relative to the starting weather: it either gets better, worse, or stays the same.
Neat idea. So I suppose the party gets the member with the highest CHA to look out and check the weather each day? :p
Quote from: talysman;826617I make reaction rolls. If the weather is hostile, you get whatever counts as the worst for the current season. If the weather is friendly, it's the best weather for that season. Follow up rolls are relative to the starting weather: it either gets better, worse, or stays the same.
I like it.
Quote from: talysman;826617I make reaction rolls. If the weather is hostile, you get whatever counts as the worst for the current season. If the weather is friendly, it's the best weather for that season. Follow up rolls are relative to the starting weather: it either gets better, worse, or stays the same.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;826634Neat idea. So I suppose the party gets the member with the highest CHA to look out and check the weather each day? :p
I wouldn't give the bonus unless the character was a weather-worker or otherwise able to communicate with nature spirits. On the other hand I wouldn't apply a penalty, either, unless a character has a generic curse, or one specific to weather. Or if a member of the party defilade the temple of the sky god, for example.
I have in a few games. I try to keep it in mind. Only game I actually put real effort in I had a calender for the campaign world (Matched ours) and had the holidays for various gods and individual races on it so I added the wather for the central campaign on it temp, winds and humidity so I could always reference it to see what was going on that day. The Calender also doubled as a way for me to keep track of things like when projects for players would be done if they had something being built, special events for the players etc. It worked really well. If the players were outside the central area I just adjusted the weather which was usually the tempature for being further north or south etc. Not exactly accurate but it seemed to the player I had it all planned out.
Only when it really matters, which is my general rule for everything.
Quote from: talysman;826617I make reaction rolls. If the weather is hostile, you get whatever counts as the worst for the current season. If the weather is friendly, it's the best weather for that season. Follow up rolls are relative to the starting weather: it either gets better, worse, or stays the same.
I'm doing something similar for the adventure module I'm working on, except that the individual d6 rolls determine specific details of the weather.
Quote from: ptingler;826584That's pretty cool. That made me think, I wonder if someone did one for Harn. Sure enough, yep.
http://www.phantasia.org/miju/rpg/harn/generators.html
Oof, not just weather but maps, manors, vessels, households, price lists. Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: Barbatruc;826952Oof, not just weather but maps, manors, vessels, households, price lists. Thanks for sharing!
No problem. :-)
Yes. I have tables for each biome that generates temperature and chance of precipitation based on the month of the year. That is cross referenced with probable cloud cover. 2-3 rolls gives me the weather.
I've been thinking of putting it into an excel spreadsheet so that I could crank out a month of weather at a time.
I probably should...
Thinking over my longer running campaigns, I didn't use weather much at all in OD&D.
For my Runequest campaign, I used weather for every day of the campaign. Griffin Mountain came with seasonal weather tables which made it pretty easy to figure and it was simple to add it to the daily campaign log. Admittedly this would have been more record keeping if the PCs had split up into more than one geographical location where they would experience different weather. Fortunately that didn't happen.
Call of Cthulhu weather was a dramatic element for mood and atmosphere either to fit the scenario or to highlight the region - e.g. even though Egypt does get precipitation everyone really expects a visit to the pyramids in the daytime to be hot and sunny.
In the Star Trek and Star Wars campaigns weather was a dramatic element (ion storms or Planet Hoth) or just part of the planetary mono-environments that those genres tended to feature. I did run a smuggler mini-campaign was located in a region with a giant pulsar that provided a kind of space scale weather that affected communications and travel.
For Honor+Intrigue I've been struggling how best to use weather. It is a definite feature in swashbuckling fiction and has a dramatic impact on travel and on combat (matchlock muskets don't work well in the rain as more than a heavy club). Since the campaign is set in (mostly) historical Europe I'd like to have typical weather for the 1620s, but I haven't found a good source for looking up actual weather nor a generator that I like...so still looking.
Quote from: Barbatruc;826565For my Greyhawk campaign, I let this online weather generator (http://suuronen.eu/wf/). It implements the method from the Glossography in the 1983 box set — previously published in Dragon, I believe. I run the thing for a in-game month, take a screenshot, consult when needed. It's had pretty profound effects on the campaign, like heavy rains making rivers unfordable, then continuing for a few days and making travel impossible... and obliterating tracking information that would have been mighty useful to the party.
Wouldn't mind a similar gizmo for the Wilderness Survival Guide method...
That generator looks pretty good. :)
I'd like to use something like this for Honor+Intrigue, but I'm not sure what the Greyhawk months correspond to earth wise.
Yes and no. Usually just yes, but in the current campaign, a powerful winter witch is successfully extending winter. It's still the equivalent of early March, so it's not yet obvious what's going on, but I'm making a point of openly rolling for weather so as the campaign continues it will become more and more obvious that something is wrong.
As an aside, this is only one of many things going on, so they may or may not choose to deal with this themselves, or arrange for somebody else to deal with it, or they may even trust that the other powers that be nearby will be attempting to deal with it rather than making it a problem they take on themselves.
Quote from: Bren;827123That generator looks pretty good. :)
I'd like to use something like this for Honor+Intrigue, but I'm not sure what the Greyhawk months correspond to earth wise.
Eh. 364-day year divided into twelve 28-day month and four 7-day festivals (but 360 days per year and 6-day festivals in the 1980 folio). Months correspond to seasons as follows, starting with the new year:
Needfest
Fireseek: Winter
Readying: Spring
Coldeven: Spring
Growfest
Planting: Low Summer
Flocktime: Low Summer
Wealsun: Low Summer
Richfest Midsummer
Reaping: High Summer
Goodmonth: High Summer
Harvester: High Summer
Brewfest
Patchwall: Autumn
Ready'reat: Autumn
Sunsebb: Winter
These season lengths are in the 1980 folio so they are probably based on Greyhawk City's 35N latitude rather than the generator's default 40N latitude. Gygax may have based the physical geography of his world on the Lake Michigan coast, but he sure didn't base the climate on that. (And whoever wrote the generator followed suit.)
Quote from: Barbatruc;827228Eh. 364-day year divided into twelve 28-day month and four 7-day festivals (but 360 days per year and 6-day festivals in the 1980 folio). Months correspond to seasons as follows, starting with the new year:
Needfest
Fireseek: Winter
Readying: Spring
Coldeven: Spring
Growfest
Planting: Low Summer
Flocktime: Low Summer
Wealsun: Low Summer
Richfest Midsummer
Reaping: High Summer
Goodmonth: High Summer
Harvester: High Summer
Brewfest
Patchwall: Autumn
Ready'reat: Autumn
Sunsebb: Winter
These season lengths are in the 1980 folio so they are probably based on Greyhawk City's 35N latitude rather than the generator's default 40N latitude. Gygax may have based the physical geography of his world on the Lake Michigan coast, but he sure didn't base the climate on that. (And whoever wrote the generator followed suit.)
Thanks that helps. :)
I should be able to match the months now and by tinkering with the latitude/geography I should be able to get something acceptable for the various climate zones in Europe. I already know the lunar phases for Europe in the 1620s, so I can synch that up manually.
Thanks for the various charts, but they're too tied up to the setting they are designed with, doesn't anyone have a setting neutral one to share?
I just find out what the region's like and the season and then roll the weather, adjusting for what I think locally it's likely to be from there.
I roll every few game days.
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
Or very rare occasions if it is mentioned in the module, or just remember that might enliven an otherwise dull trip.
I tell the party the weather every day. I reskinned Neverwinter and Phandalin in LMoP to actually be in a snowy region; so far it's been crisp and clear, but there will be a blizzard soon enough.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827267Thanks for the various charts, but they're too tied up to the setting they are designed with, doesn't anyone have a setting neutral one to share?
I just googled "weather generator for rpgs" and lots of links came up. Here is a neutral one at a Pathfinder site.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/random-weather-generator
Now I want to see a Chaotic weather generator.
I do not track weather. When traveling through the wild on a day-by-day scale, I will give a roll to see what it is doing.
Quote from: ptingler;827472I just googled "weather generator for rpgs" and lots of links came up. Here is a neutral one at a Pathfinder site.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/random-weather-generator
Oh neat! Thank you!
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827547Oh neat! Thank you!
No problem.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827267Thanks for the various charts, but they're too tied up to the setting they are designed with, doesn't anyone have a setting neutral one to share?
Sure. Give me a couple of days and I'll see if I can find a good place to store it.
There have been a few times when weather has been very important, but those are few and far between. Usually I don't bother if there's not a good reason to check.
Quote from: RPGPundit;828960There have been a few times when weather has been very important, but those are few and far between. Usually I don't bother if there's not a good reason to check.
I think it can add a lot of ambience, and produce different strategies and fresh problems each day.
Lots of wind and rain, suddenly archery is harder. Lots of snow, now you need somewhere warm. Etc.
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
Only in those rare occasions where I feel it really matters. Usually I go by what season of the year it is as my guide.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;829041I think it can add a lot of ambience, and produce different strategies and fresh problems each day.
Lots of wind and rain, suddenly archery is harder. Lots of snow, now you need somewhere warm. Etc.
Yep. You don't know whether the weather matters or not until you know what the weather is.
This even applies to downtime, not just when the characters are out adventuring. Last fall, I was running a campaign where I'd used software to generate the weather for the entire year and, during one period of downtime, that weather included a tornado hitting the PCs' town. I had no idea that the weather would matter on that day until I saw what the day's weather would be.
Quote from: nDervish;829155Yep. You don't know whether the weather matters or not until you know what the weather is.
This even applies to downtime, not just when the characters are out adventuring. Last fall, I was running a campaign where I'd used software to generate the weather for the entire year and, during one period of downtime, that weather included a tornado hitting the PCs' town. I had no idea that the weather would matter on that day until I saw what the day's weather would be.
Yeah good point.
Personally I find it odd when people run a sandbox game but ignore weather unless they want to add weather to add drama, to suit a mood or atmosphere, or to create a tactical problem. None of those reasons seem related to running a sandbox. Or to put it another way, it strikes me as flawed to treat the weather as some story game kind of thing when the goal is to treat the rest of the world as a not-a-story kind of thing.
Most games I have played weather is usually not discussed or tracked too much but now I think it would be awesome to add that in there. Seems like it would add so much to a game!
Quote from: RPGPundit;828960There have been a few times when weather has been very important, but those are few and far between. Usually I don't bother if there's not a good reason to check.
A few sessions back our group was in a dungeon that we'd created a back door into. Our new door was down in a canyon and we hadn't really considered the possibilities of rain, a rising river and what would happen when that water found our exit strategy... but I'm glad the GM was paying attention because it was hilarious chaos (and no, I don't think he arbitrarily made it rain just to fuck with us).
Obviously, one area where I do track weather is if the PC's are on a sea voyage.
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
Nah, I either start with the weather or base it on what works for the region the characters are in.
Last time we started with an unrelenting downpour forcing the PCs to seek shelter. Great incentive to get things started, especially as they had empty pockets and only the equipment they could carry.
Quote from: RPGPundit;829283Obviously, one area where I do track weather is if the PC's are on a sea voyage.
Actually, I just realized that every time my players have been at sea, I've done the same. Track the weather.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;829392Actually, I just realized that every time my players have been at sea, I've done the same. Track the weather.
Well, it makes sense. Other than pirates and sea monsters, which in most seas should not be constant encounters, the biggest challenge at sea is weather-related: wind speed and direction, rain, storms, etc.
Quote from: RPGPundit;829733Well, it makes sense. Other than pirates and sea monsters, which in most seas should not be constant encounters, the biggest challenge at sea is weather-related: wind speed and direction, rain, storms, etc.
I guess, but I don't normally. I guess you're right. In general rain and wind don't do major things to people in a land based environment until it hit the extremes, like 40mph+ gusts, which will affect aim for archers. Rain, unless it's really hard, doesn't affect visibility much.
But at sea? Both those things, even light, can change the entire course (no pun intended, but laughter accepted) of the adventure or even campaign. And that's not touching things like storms and the like. On land, you've got a lot of chances for protection, caves, overhangs, even trees can lessen it, but on the water? You're only protection is being tossed around like a rubber duck in a 4 year old's tub.
Quote from: RPGPundit;826425In your D&D games, do you regularly/meticulously track the weather?
Or only in those rare occasions where you feel it really matters?
I use an online weather generator (http://suuronen.eu/wf/) and print out a month or two at a time. If it's important, or if I just want to add a little color to my descriptions, I'll take a glance at my printout.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;829736In general rain and wind don't do major things to people in a land based environment until it hit the extremes, like 40mph+ gusts, which will affect aim for archers. Rain, unless it's really hard, doesn't affect visibility much.
History disagrees. If you are playing a game where story or drama trump immersion and simulation ignoring the weather except when you want to use it to set a mood or have the odd tornado, typhoon, or blizzard occur makes sense. In a campaign that is driven by a immersion and simulation of a living world ignoring the weather is a weakness that detracts from a proper experience. The fact that weather not mattering most of the time is even a possibility seems a result of the player base living in developed countries with paved roads, trains, and subways.
Weather has a significant effect on travel especially in locations where the roads are unpaved.
- Due to snow melt or rain roads often turned into nearly impassable mud.
- Rain and significant cloud cover may make it difficult or impossible to tell where the sun is. This increases the chance of being lost.
- Before modern times road signs were non-existent except on major highways. During bad weather other travels would hold up at an inn meaning no one would be around to ask for directions which again increases the chance of being lost.
- Heat exhausts men and horses faster. Dry and hot makes acquiring sufficient water crucial but difficult.
- Ice and rain affect climbing by making roofs, walls, rocks, and cliffs slippery.
Weather also affects combat.
- Rain wets bow strings making them ineffective and makes matchlocks almost impossible to fire.
- You can try to keep your bowstring dry or your crossbow covered or your powder dry, but that means the archer/musketeer isn't ready to fire.
- Gusts and strong winds make accurate archery more difficult.
- Mud may mire horses or men on the battlefield e.g. Crecy.
Quote from: Bren;829805History disagrees. If you are playing a game where story or drama trump immersion and simulation ignoring the weather except when you want to use it to set a mood or have the odd tornado, typhoon, or blizzard occur makes sense. In a campaign that is driven by a immersion and simulation of a living world ignoring the weather is a weakness that detracts from a proper experience. The fact that weather not mattering most of the time is even a possibility seems a result of the player base living in developed countries with paved roads, trains, and subways.
Weather has a significant effect on travel especially in locations where the roads are unpaved.
- Due to snow melt or rain roads often turned into nearly impassable mud.
- Rain and significant cloud cover may make it difficult or impossible to tell where the sun is. This increases the chance of being lost.
- Before modern times road signs were non-existent except on major highways. During bad weather other travels would hold up at an inn meaning no one would be around to ask for directions which again increases the chance of being lost.
- Heat exhausts men and horses faster. Dry and hot makes acquiring sufficient water crucial but difficult.
- Ice and rain affect climbing by making roofs, walls, rocks, and cliffs slippery.
Weather also affects combat.
- Rain wets bow strings making them ineffective and makes matchlocks almost impossible to fire.
- You can try to keep your bowstring dry or your crossbow covered or your powder dry, but that means the archer/musketeer isn't ready to fire.
- Gusts and strong winds make accurate archery more difficult.
- Mud may mire horses or men on the battlefield e.g. Crecy.
Those tend to affect massive groups of people like an army. But in terms of a PC group, a lot of those dangers can be out aside by 'staying home'. But in a ship at sea, a simple wash of rain, a mere 5mm, could ruin your day, and your boat.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;830029Those tend to affect massive groups of people like an army.
And except for the mired on a battlefield they also affect small parties like PCs. Maybe the PCs can stay home and avoid the other effects of the weather, but staying home is an effect. One that will slow the pace of activity for adventures (not a bad side effect to my mind) and one that in a sandbox or world in motion campaign, an effect that will allow those willing to trudge through bad weather the advantage of initiative and additional actions. Which is why I said that ignoring weather in those sorts of campaigns seems odd and flawed.
QuoteBut in a ship at sea, a simple wash of rain, a mere 5mm, could ruin your day, and your boat.
Bailers?
Quote from: Bren;830033And except for the mired on a battlefield they also affect small parties like PCs. Maybe the PCs can stay home and avoid the other effects of the weather, but staying home is an effect. One that will slow the pace of activity for adventures (not a bad side effect to my mind) and one that in a sandbox or world in motion campaign, an effect that will allow those willing to trudge through bad weather the advantage of initiative and additional actions. Which is why I said that ignoring weather in those sorts of campaigns seems odd and flawed.
That's a fair point, but...
Quote from: Bren;830033Bailers?
Don't keep the ship moving forward. The wash of rain affects sails' ability to catch the wind.
A simply patter of rain at sea stops most progress, on a ship. Not to mention that bad wind can stall you for days. Not so in a land adventure.
In general, and in my experience, weather effects are doubly annoying and dangerous when the PC are at sea than on land.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;830040That's a fair point, but...
Don't keep the ship moving forward. The wash of rain affects sails' ability to catch the wind.
A simply patter of rain at sea stops most progress, on a ship. Not to mention that bad wind can stall you for days. Not so in a land adventure.
In general, and in my experience, weather effects are doubly annoying and dangerous when the PC are at sea than on land.
I thought wet canvass caught more air, hence the wetting of canvas in very light airs to catch more of the faint breeze.
How much weather stalls travel depends on the mode of travel and the type of weather. Yes fully sailed ships could be stalled in port or trapped in the doldrums for weeks at a time. Oared ships had some additional choices, but tended to be more susceptible to higher seas due to lower freeboards or the holes for the oars.
Wind tends not to end travel for land parties. On the other hand, cold weather or heavy snows could keep passes closed for weeks at a time trapping the land based party just as effectively as the ship waiting for a fair wind. High waters could make rivers unfordable for entire seasons. And mud could reduce the speed of small parties on roads from 30 miles per day to 5 miles per day or less. Weather is not a negligible factor on land or sea.
Quote from: Bren;830051Weather is not a negligible factor on land or sea.
I'm not saying it's not, I'm saying it's bigger factor at sea. Simply because outside of port, the ship is more dangerous in a good rainstorm, than a forest or rocky plain. In the latter, there's more cover to wait it out.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;830062I'm not saying it's not, I'm saying it's bigger factor at sea. Simply because outside of port, the ship is more dangerous in a good rainstorm, than a forest or rocky plain. In the latter, there's more cover to wait it out.
Fair enough. It's definitely harder to drown in a rainstorm on land than it is floating in the ocean.
this is why when i want to cross a sea i take an apparatus of kalawish
Quote from: tuypo1;830189this is why when i want to cross a sea i take an apparatus of kalawish
Which presents a few awesome possibilities for adventures on it's own. Ocean currents are affected by weather, you know.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;830029Those tend to affect massive groups of people like an army. But in terms of a PC group, a lot of those dangers can be out aside by 'staying home'.
Since when is that always feasible, or something the group is likely to be interested in doing?
There are scenarios on time clocks, and the party needs to be in the city of Shedra by the morning of the 4th no matter what, or the magic dingus absolutely needs to get back to the capital in time for the coronation ceremony. There are groups on long journeys in wildernesses or on the open sea, or those for whom travel has to take place in the winter or in a monsoon season, and parking in an inn for several months just isn't feasible.
Beyond that, it doesn't need to be extreme weather to affect adventuring: run of the mill stuff can do so too. My fantasy LARPing years had me camping in all manner of weather for over a decade, and I vividly recall an overnight downpour that flooded out our encampment. Everyone's bedding had been soaked through, everyone's gear was sodden (which screwed more than one wizard, dependent on a ruined spellbook), everyone's clothes were soaked through, all the kindling was drenched, and we were a damn grumpy lot. The only hot meal anyone had that morning was my doing, because I had the only Coleman stove on site, and I sure didn't have the wherewithal to feed seventy people. (Weak tea and diluted cocoa for everyone was about it, as well as hot wash water, and it was just as well that I
always pack a reserve tank of propane.)
Now that event drove me to ditch storing gear in duffles and cardboard boxes and buy a whopping lot of plastic tubs, a practice that's helped me a lot over the decades since, but even so: we were an impaired lot that day. Short on sleep, short on food, sodden gear, and with our LARP's schedule, we didn't have the luxury of just forgetting about it and going home -- the event the next weekend was the next part of the scenario, and we just had to get the job done.
My point being, Ravenswing, is that in a land based campaign, there's always a choice, even if one of them is bad, but there's often a chance for safety first. Often, in the middle of the sea, there isn't one that's actually safe.
There's a reason that sea voyages are still considered dangerous to this day in the real world, and a lot of that is the weather.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;830205There's a reason that sea voyages are still considered dangerous to this day in the real world, and a lot of that is the weather.
Actually I think it is the ocean not the weather. If your boat sinks in the middle of the ocean the question quickly becomes "How long can you tread water." If your cart sinks in a road that's turned into a muddy bog, usually that doesn't mean you are treading water....usually.
But I agree with Ravenswing that there are a lot of weather induced fail states short of death on land. Death is just a lot more up front and immediate during ocean travel.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;829736I guess, but I don't normally. I guess you're right. In general rain and wind don't do major things to people in a land based environment until it hit the extremes, like 40mph+ gusts, which will affect aim for archers. Rain, unless it's really hard, doesn't affect visibility much.
But at sea? Both those things, even light, can change the entire course (no pun intended, but laughter accepted) of the adventure or even campaign. And that's not touching things like storms and the like. On land, you've got a lot of chances for protection, caves, overhangs, even trees can lessen it, but on the water? You're only protection is being tossed around like a rubber duck in a 4 year old's tub.
A fact my Albion players learned all too well in the last session, when they said "why risk the single-digit-percent chance of failure from a teleport when we can hop on a ship and be there in 40 days?"
If they're very lucky, they MIGHT actually get to Byzantium by the end of next session.