Quote from: Ruprecht on December 27, 2023, 12:42:04 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 27, 2023, 12:34:41 PM
I'm not sure what dungeon-specific rules are that Ruprecht is thinking of. I haven't felt the need for anything that I can think of from earlier editions for dungeons.

How far you can move/search per turn. How rest is required 10 minutes out of every hour, how often to check for random encounters while in a dungeon, that sort of thing. The concept of a quick rest could be impossible in a dungeon depending upon the frequency of random encounter checks.

Also  it seems random encounter tables based on dungeon level disappeared when CR showed up, at least I don't think I ever found them in the core three books or the SRD.

In 5E, random encounter tables aren't part of the core rules. They are common in adventures, though not fully standard. An adventure will typically have a random encounter table for a large dangerous area. There are four random encounter tables among the eight chapters of The Shattered Obelisk, for example.

Especially with a smaller dungeon, wandering monsters can be awkward as a mechanic. It makes sense for some of the creatures to move around - but if so, then they'll be eliminated from their usual haunt. Some wandering monster tables specify this, but many have monsters come from a seemingly infinite population - which is more appropriate for a wide-open area like the Underdark or a megadungeon.

Almost every hook I offer my players is some sort of dungeon crawl.

They create plenty of their own adventurers in-between biting hooks, or on their way to one.

In D&D, most of the time. In fact my last campaign I advertised as primarily a dungeon crawl, but we still did some overland, and the players did still start picking goals of their own after they had some levels under their belts.

In L5R and Traveller I went through a phase of deliberately avoiding dungeon crawls to force myself to come up with other adventures. That was worth doing for the exercise, but in hindsight I was also taking some game appropriate sessions off the table. Consider a deserted asteroid research station in Traveller for instance. Effectively a small dungeon, but - so what? Room by room with flashlights for a slow burn with maybe a combat or two, that's actually very sci fi. So I'm starting to add those back in.

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 27, 2023, 12:42:04 PM
Also  it seems random encounter tables based on dungeon level disappeared when CR showed up, at least I don't think I ever found them in the core three books or the SRD.

I don't know about the SRD but they are in the DMG.

Quote from: jhkim on December 27, 2023, 02:44:52 PM
In 5E, random encounter tables aren't part of the core rules.

Yes they are.  They are in the DMG which is one of the core books.  They are also in every published campaign. 

Overland Adventures and Dungeoncrawling, are my favorite gaming sessions.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2023, 10:13:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 27, 2023, 02:44:52 PM
In 5E, random encounter tables aren't part of the core rules.

Yes they are.  They are in the DMG which is one of the core books.  They are also in every published campaign.

Sorry. I should clarify. In the 5E DMG, there are rules and advice for DMs making up their own encounter tables and one sample encounter table, but there aren't a large set of premade encounter tables like there are in the AD&D1 DMG - where it has dozens of tables for wilderness, dungeons, and cities. Interestingly, 2E doesn't have premade encounter tables in the DMG, but 3E does have premade dungeon encounter tables in the DMG.

Quote from: jhkim on December 28, 2023, 12:11:00 AM

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2023, 10:13:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 27, 2023, 02:44:52 PM
In 5E, random encounter tables aren't part of the core rules.

Yes they are.  They are in the DMG which is one of the core books.  They are also in every published campaign.

Sorry. I should clarify. In the 5E DMG, there are rules and advice for DMs making up their own encounter tables and one sample encounter table, but there aren't a large set of premade encounter tables like there are in the AD&D1 DMG - where it has dozens of tables for wilderness, dungeons, and cities. Interestingly, 2E doesn't have premade encounter tables in the DMG, but 3E does have premade dungeon encounter tables in the DMG.

That reminds me, the 2e book did introduce me to a really interesting system for random encounters. Basically it said that if you rolled a 1d12 and a 1d8, you'd have a statistical plateau where 9-13 are all the highest probability and have the same odds of being rolled. Then 2 and 20 are really low, so you'd make your common encounters the 9-13 slots, while rare stuff would be 2 or 20, etc. That blew my mind when I read that, and I still use it to this day.

Not sure how I would answer that question. I've not yet run a megadungeon, though I do tend to include a fair few dungeon-like environments in my games. The thing is that I tend to prefer those environments to be relatively smaller (no more than two levels on average), and I try to design them as real places first, and dungeons second. That tends to mean the actual crawling rules fall by the wayside.

Maybe this has something to do with the way I run games, but I find that a lot of the standard rules of dungeon crawling (exploration turns, wandering monsters, even torch duration to an extent) stop making sense unless either the players are exploring a very large complex, or you've stuffed every room with traps and encounters. The latter case strains my sense of credulity. Hard to imagine the old idea of an ogre not just living in a single room, but also co-existing with the gorgon next door. Even a large structure like a ruined castle, if populated sensibly, could realistically be explored in an hour or two.

So maybe my answer would be "dungeon: yes; crawling: no"

As an aside, I do agree with others that most versions of D&D play best in a dungeon/hex-crawling style. The resource/attrition based elements are so core to the design of the game that even all the changes made over the years by both TSR and WOTC haven't erased them. Not saying you can't run other types of game with it --I've done it-- but it does seem to be the way you get the best performance out of the system.

To me in 5e what you're getting is a nerfed illusion of dungeon crawling because of all the lame ass video game mechanics they've added like short & long rests, various cantrips and the like.  I find it hilarious when people who have only played 5e try to tell me how important "resource management" is.  Then I'll explain how 1e does HP recovery, spells, death , etc. and their jaws drop.  Really to me the only reason to play any old school mega-dungeon in 5e is because you want to replicate the "Gauntlet" video game experience.  Wizard needs food!

I usually include one or more dungeons as things the PCs may need to traverse on the way to accomplishing their goals, but they are almost never the focus or a campaign