I've heard people often complain about those players who seem to fade into the background a bit, always end up playing support characters, etc etc.  You know, the "quiet ones".

Now, I've heard people claim that this means that these players are secretly dis-satisfied with their play, or that the GM has to try to reach out to them and get them "as involved" as the rest of the players.

My question is: why?? Why do you think that just because he isn't bouncing up and down with glee it means he's secretly harbouring a desire to whip out a grenade, chuck the pin, declare "This Game leaves my might heart feeling empty!!" and take you all down with him?
If a player, at the end of the night, smiles and agrees he had fun, as long as he knows that I'm available for discussion, and if he doesn't show any other symptoms of dissatisfaction, then I'm going to take him at his fucking word and assume he's having fun.

Also, why the fuck do you need all the players to be equally "involved" in a campaign? Personally, if there's one guy who is "low needs"; who feels happy with coming every week and playing and enjoying his game without needing every fucking plot to directly involve him in some way, or to get to spend hours dedicated to his issues and his plans, then the last fucking thing I'll want to do is try to change him into a primma donna! Shit, I would wish there were more like him.

RPGPundit

I have a "quiet" player like that in my campaign. He is currently tied for having the best attendance record to the game- only missed the game when he took his entire family out of state for vacation. Pretty good attendance for a game thats run weekly since February.

The "problem" with quiet players is that it's hard to judge whether they enjoy themselves as much as the more outgoing types. A game master might think he's doing something wrong and doesn't play to the tastes of them as much.

We've got a couple of guys who are notorious for twisting entire games around their chararacters, and other folks who are more content to go with the story and fade into the background when necessary. They serve different functions in my group, and it's kind of neat. My DM encourages the guys who go with the story to take on roles integral to the functioning of the plot, because he knows they'll go along with it, while letting the hams (myself included ) pretty much involve ourselves however we please and leaving it to us to make sure our characters relate to the story somehow.

As long as they come on a regular basis, are ready to play, and contribute to each session, I'm happy. Some people don't need a double mocha when a weak tea will do.

I've had players like this in my group.  Heck, I often am one when I'm not in the GM's chair.

While quiet players might seem like a pain to GM sometimes if you like playing off cues from your group, I've learned not to take their being quiet as a sign of negativity.  I periodically let my players know they can come to me with any issues and always ask if they're enjoying themselves.  If they say they're having fun, then they're having fun.

Some folks aren't interested in scene editing or collaborative world building.  They want to show up, roll dice, have some pizza, and enjoy the ride in their own way.  And I'm cool with that.

Quote from: SosthenesThe "problem" with quiet players is that it's hard to judge whether they enjoy themselves as much as the more outgoing types. A game master might think he's doing something wrong and doesn't play to the tastes of them as much.

Not at all. All you have to do is ask him or her. If the player says he's enjoying it, as the Pundit says, take him at his word. You should ask - once - if he'd like to get more involved, but if he says no, leave it. If he's showing signs of not liking it - like any other player - talk to him. Communication is the key to anything social. Talk.

-clash

Quote from: RPGPunditIf a player, at the end of the night, smiles and agrees he had fun, as long as he knows that I'm available for discussion, and if he doesn't show any other symptoms of dissatisfaction, then I'm going to take him at his fucking word and assume he's having fun.

Likewise.  The guy's got no reason to lie.  People enjoy different things, and that's cool.

My only problem would be if I wanted/expected him to contribute more to my fun.  In some games, with some groups, I don't expect that.  In some games, with some groups, I do.

To analogize:  I have a kid who plays on a soccer team.  They're young, it's not really competitive.  Who can be bothered to keep score?  But my son likes to pass to people, and likes the people to pass back.  He likes to be actively part of a team.  He feels good when that happens, and feels frustrated when it doesn't.

There's a girl on his team who never touches the ball.  She will actively step aside to let a perfect pass miss her.  She just saunters around the field while the game is going on around her.  She seems to be happy.  But she's not doing a damn thing to help my son be part of a team, and in fact she's stealing a good deal of his fun whenever she's on the field with him.

Do I have some right to expect the girl to get involved in the game?  'course not.  But I'll tell you that I, as a spectator, am much happier (and I guarantee you my son is happier) when he's fielded with kids who are trying to play the game together.  If I could choose who he played with, I'd choose those kids.

You can be a team player but still keep pretty quiet in an RPG. (Just as you can be a quiet team member at work- I have lots of people I work with who nonetheless are big contributors).

If you step aside when someone passes you the ball, you can't be a team player. At least not in Soccer.

I'm tossing your analogy out.

Tony, do you think that "quiet" players can detract from a GM's fun?

The other thing is- I don't at all appreciate the slander that "quiet players" are "bad players".

You know, the only players I've ever wanted to get rid of or moderate somehow are the ones that are too fucking loud and trying to be intense all the time. Inappropriately.

The ideal gaming group, in reality, is composed of a mix of players who are very involved and some who aren't.  A bunch of primma donnas all put together don't mix well, and if every player in your group is a quiet guy, then no one will move the party along.

RPGPundit

Quote from: flyingmiceNot at all. All you have to do is ask him or her. If the player says he's enjoying it, as the Pundit says, take him at his word. You should ask - once - if he'd like to get more involved, but if he says no, leave it. If he's showing signs of not liking it - like any other player - talk to him. Communication is the key to anything social. Talk.

Well, some of the silent guys are a little hard to talk to. Ask them "did you have fun?" and you'll get a "sure!" no matter what. Not all game masters have the time or empathy to get some truth out of the more wallflower-ish guys.

Quote from: SosthenesWell, some of the silent guys are a little hard to talk to. Ask them "did you have fun?" and you'll get a "sure!" no matter what. Not all game masters have the time or empathy to get some truth out of the more wallflower-ish guys.

So?

Take him at his word and move on. If he keeps coming and keeps playing then he must be having at least a decent time.  If he ain't, and he's not talking...

guess what? It ain't your problem, bub.  You've done you part.

Spike: This is why I love you the best.