Quote from: Benoist;708409Or just trying to appear better than you really are, sure. I think one of the critical things that need to happen for a GM to improve is self-awareness, a willingness to acknowledge and identify mistakes in order to not reproduce them in the future. Without that, you can't learn.

Some games I ran failed, and it's not impossible for a game I would run now to fail miserably either. I remember games that flopped for whatever reason, were just not fun, or that bombed due to a critical mistake of mine. It's happened, of course.

When I have encountered truly bad GMs they are often the type who blame or complain about the players when sessions go wrong.

Quote from: jibbajibba;708189I have been a bad GM in the past.
I used to get swayed by the way players did things rather than what they did, basically the more personable players got more leeway.
I have railroaded.
I have been guilty of illusionism, without really knowing what it was.
I have been guilty of using favoured GM NPCs.

I think if you have been GMing for any degree of time especially if you started when you were a kid and were self taught, you are bound to have been through these phases, in fact I might go as far to say if you can't recognise yourself as every been guilty of these things you need to step back and take a longer look.

Quote from: Imperator;708312I have done all of these mistakes and then some more. Fortunately, GMing is a passion for me and I am always in the lookout for ways and techniques that can improve my game.

Hear, hear.

As for bad GMs, well, there was the catpissman back in the day, who wasn't so much a bad GM as just clueless about personal hygiene and lacking in empathy with the rest of humanity. It's been what, 15 years since I last saw him? I heard he's gotten better.

There's also this one guy whose games are horribly railroaded and who cribs characters and plots (typically SF) from TV shows and bad movies, which by all rights should make him a bad GM, but by Jove he's got a grasp on what puts people on the edge. His games are action-packed, tense and terrifying. He's really, really good at grabbing a player's attention and getting people to immerse. We know ot's a railroad and a patchwork of half a dozen crap TV shows and movies but we're still having a blast. Pity he hasn't GMed in a while.

So I suppose it's a no. I haven't really been around a bad, horrible, no-good, drive-me-away-from-the-hobby GM. But like everyone else, I've heard the horror stories.

Quote from: The Butcher;708445... who cribs characters and plots (typically SF) from TV shows and bad movies, which by all rights should make him a bad GM...

I sort of resent this one. I find this sort of cribbing a real time-saver, and even if the players recognize it they usually end up thinking, "Oh, it's that story, but how am I going to handle it now that I'm the protagonist?" which is kind of cool.

No gaming is better than bad gaming. If I am not having a good time, I have plenty of other fun stuff to do.

As for GM skill, I am sure I am better today than a decade ago, or three decades ago when I started. I am also reasonably certain I will be an even better GM a decade from now.  

My "Bad GM habit" is that I prep too much for short sessions. At a con game, you gotta have a beginning, middle and end to your session that satisfies the players. If the 4 hour slot ends and you are halfway through, that just sucks and I did this too much years ago. It takes a lot of effort for me to carve up my stuff to make sure that I only try to pack 6 hours of gaming into 4 hours, instead of 16 hours of material.

After years of being tough on myself, I have (mostly) learned how to time for slots, but I absolutely cheat by carving stuff out on the fly so its very common for me to have "leftover bits."  I have decided to be okay with this as long as I deliver a satisfying ending to the session.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;708505even if the players recognize it they usually end up thinking, "Oh, it's that story, but how am I going to handle it now that I'm the protagonist?" which is kind of cool.

Fuck yeah.

There is a cool horror RPG called Sphear by Jared Sorensen that recreates the Phantasm movies. If you know Phantasm I or Phantasm II, you can "guess" at what's happening as much as you can guess what's happening when you sit down for an Aliens RPG session. But I don't find this diminishes the fun. Instead, its all about trying to be smarter than the guys in the movie...without the Deux Ex Machina of a movie script.

http://www.1km1kt.net/tag/jared-sorensen

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;708505I sort of resent this one. I find this sort of cribbing a real time-saver, and even if the players recognize it they usually end up thinking, "Oh, it's that story, but how am I going to handle it now that I'm the protagonist?" which is kind of cool.

When you're being railroaded down to a predetermined outcome, it doesn't make much of a difference "how you handle it", now, does it?

And when I say "cribbing" I mean "without even changing names." His GURPS Space campaign had a Psi Corps headed by a woman called Ivanova. I shit you not. Also a race of warlike catfolk aliens called the Kilrathi (from the old Wing Commander games. Didn't even bother to look up the source fiction, Niven's Kzinti). And diminutive, 3-inch-tall aliens piloting human-sized suits exactly like the ones from Men In Black (to his credit, he did make up a name for these. I think).

I've played with bad GMs in conventions and gaming clubs and such wich is why I stay away from these.

The main DM of my old gaming group had some bad habits going way back - stuff like horrible GMPCs dominating totally, and railroading to the max combined with frequent humiliation of PCs etc. However he grew and developed into a good DM eventually - and rid himself of these habits. W/O GMPCs and railroading he turned into a really good, even excellent DM!

Then he burned out due to 3e/3.5e not really fitting our playstyle

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;708505I sort of resent this one. I find this sort of cribbing a real time-saver, and even if the players recognize it they usually end up thinking, "Oh, it's that story, but how am I going to handle it now that I'm the protagonist?" which is kind of cool.

If you can resist the triggered memes from the other players, you'll do ok.

Quote from: The Butcher;708654When you're being railroaded down to a predetermined outcome, it doesn't make much of a difference "how you handle it", now, does it?

Point, but I was only adressing the cribbing.

Quote from: The Butcher;708654And when I say "cribbing" I mean "without even changing names."

Ok, yeah, you should at least file off the serial number.

QuoteIf you can resist the triggered memes from the other players, you'll do ok.

I find this conversation usually resolves intself like this: "Full disclosure guys, I cribbed several key concepts for this campaign from a mish-mash of Soul Eater, Secret of Mana, and Asterix the Gaul. I do this in the fine tradition of D&D, which cribbed and continues to crib from a variety of very esteemed and recognizable fantasy staples. Let's all get all our giggles and ahah moments out in the first session and proceed at a brisk clip from here on in."

Memes will crop of from time to time after that of course, but if the GM doesn't get in on the action (while not condemning it either) things usually keep moving.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;708666Point, but I was only adressing the cribbing.



Ok, yeah, you should at least file off the serial number.



I find this conversation usually resolves intself like this: "Full disclosure guys, I cribbed several key concepts for this campaign from a mish-mash of Soul Eater, Secret of Mana, and Asterix the Gaul. I do this in the fine tradition of D&D, which cribbed and continues to crib from a variety of very esteemed and recognizable fantasy staples. Let's all get all our giggles and ahah moments out in the first session and proceed at a brisk clip from here on in."

Memes will crop of from time to time after that of course, but if the GM doesn't get in on the action (while not condemning it either) things usually keep moving.

The thing is you can a plot say mission impossible 3 put that into a fantasy game where ther pcs have an assasin a thief a fighter and a mage and no one will noticecthe joins

The secret to good plagerism is change the genre.

Take asterix and the laurel wreath steal the plot,  heroes have to steal mcguffin from enemy emperor and pose as slaves to do it, and no one will ever know. Likewise take the plot from the avengers, move ny to a town in greyhawk, replace loki with an evil mage the aliens with undead on wyverns, shield with a cool city watch with spies and..... Excellent game follows and chances are no one notices even when you orge beserker rampages on the big bad and shouts puny arch mage......

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;708666a mish-mash of Soul Eater, Secret of Mana, and Asterix the Gaul.

Not familiar with the first two, but the last is definitely underused as a source for my own RPG sessions, pour Toutatis! I should give my old collection a new look. Thanks for bringing it up!

Quote from: The Butcher;708753Not familiar with the first two, but the last is definitely underused as a source for my own RPG sessions, pour Toutatis! I should give my old collection a new look. Thanks for bringing it up!

:nono:

Not "pour", you murderer of Asterix!

PAR Toutatis!

Quote from: Benoist;708754:nono:

Not "pour", you murderer of Asterix!

PAR Toutatis!

I was going to call you a French Nazi but I thought it might not sit too well, y'know, old wounds and all.

In any case, I stand corrected.

Quote from: The Butcher;708761I was going to call you a French Nazi but I thought it might not sit too well, y'know, old wounds and all.

In any case, I stand corrected.

Good. It's okay, I know you have a familiarity with the topic of nazis seeking refuge from their past mistakes in South America, so I see where you guys are coming from on that one.