Greetings!

Do you like using Ghouls in your campaign as part of the monster roster?

I have grown to like using Ghouls. I give them extra strength, a strong bite attack, and some other physical athletic and movement abilities to juice them up. I also like giving them class levels, armour, weapons, some intellectual ability, and generally using them as strong low and mid-level opponents and villains.

I think that Ghouls have more potential than just as hordes of cannon fodder for the Players to mow down like wheat.

What do you think, my friends?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on December 28, 2022, 04:40:22 AM
Greetings!

Do you like using Ghouls in your campaign as part of the monster roster?

I have grown to like using Ghouls. I give them extra strength, a strong bite attack, and some other physical athletic and movement abilities to juice them up. I also like giving them class levels, armour, weapons, some intellectual ability, and generally using them as strong low and mid-level opponents and villains.

I think that Ghouls have more potential than just as hordes of cannon fodder for the Players to mow down like wheat.

What do you think, my friends?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I like using ghouls, but I make their appearance part of the background. The last ghouls I used started out as a wife and daughter who cannibalized their husband and two sons during a long winter where several local villagers starved from lack of adequate food supplies (the village was raided by orcs at harvest time). Eating their own family members caused them to be cursed into ghoul form. The mother-daughter ghoul team stay near their house lair and try to lure passersby on the road into their clutches for dining. They have not used armor and weapons but are very cunning and like traps.

In any given campaign, I like ghouls in one of three roles.  I like to vary it from time to time to keep the players on their toes:

1. The traditional horde of frightening zombie substitutes, with paralyze touch (because the D&D zombie isn't that frightening).

2. Some variation of what Jeff said, though I'm more likely to do that with undead abilities that are a bit more severe than the D&D ghoul.  In that case, calling it a "ghoul" is misleading, but I don't mind the players making assumptions and then learning otherwise, as each campaign is different.

3. Fritz Leiber's take in Lankhmar, where "ghouls" are a society of people, with transparent skin, and some odd behaviors that set them outside normal human society. 

Basically, I'm either going to go with the classics or even the tropes, full bore, or if I'm going to subvert the expectations, I want to go full bore with that.   

Undead are favorites of mine.  I even like them as playable races like vampire and even skeletons. 

But, ghouls are not high on my cool list.  I'm not even sure I have ever used them.  I don't eliminate them from the lore.  They exist.  You just don't encounter them. 

Recently dead zombies as well, but that is two fold.  They're African monsters and should stick to Voodoo magic stereotypes.   The other is the famous zombie saturation meme.  We've over used them and ruined their reputation. 

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on December 28, 2022, 08:34:36 AM

3. Fritz Leiber's take in Lankhmar, where "ghouls" are a society of people, with transparent skin, and some odd behaviors that set them outside normal human society. 

Basically, I'm either going to go with the classics or even the tropes, full bore, or if I'm going to subvert the expectations, I want to go full bore with that.

I also like the way Lovecraft uses ghouls in The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, where they're still corpse-eating semi-undead, but with a language of their own, and some semblance of a society. If I was going to use ghouls in a campaign, I'd probably experiment with the idea of a ghoul kingdom. As others have said, fantasy gaming already has enough things in the "undead humanoid that attacks you in a dungeon" category.

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2022, 10:33:59 AM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on December 28, 2022, 08:34:36 AM

3. Fritz Leiber's take in Lankhmar, where "ghouls" are a society of people, with transparent skin, and some odd behaviors that set them outside normal human society. 

Basically, I'm either going to go with the classics or even the tropes, full bore, or if I'm going to subvert the expectations, I want to go full bore with that.

I also like the way Lovecraft uses ghouls in The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, where they're still corpse-eating semi-undead, but with a language of their own, and some semblance of a society. If I was going to use ghouls in a campaign, I'd probably experiment with the idea of a ghoul kingdom. As others have said, fantasy gaming already has enough things in the "undead humanoid that attacks you in a dungeon" category.

Yeah. Unless I'm playing Shadowrun, which has it's own specific take on ghouls, I almost exclusively use Lovecraft's ghouls. I've already got  zombies, mummies, draugr, skeletons... I don't need another type of undead.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 28, 2022, 05:32:19 AM

Quote from: SHARK on December 28, 2022, 04:40:22 AM
Greetings!

Do you like using Ghouls in your campaign as part of the monster roster?

I have grown to like using Ghouls. I give them extra strength, a strong bite attack, and some other physical athletic and movement abilities to juice them up. I also like giving them class levels, armour, weapons, some intellectual ability, and generally using them as strong low and mid-level opponents and villains.

I think that Ghouls have more potential than just as hordes of cannon fodder for the Players to mow down like wheat.

What do you think, my friends?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I like using ghouls, but I make their appearance part of the background. The last ghouls I used started out as a wife and daughter who cannibalized their husband and two sons during a long winter where several local villagers starved from lack of adequate food supplies (the village was raided by orcs at harvest time). Eating their own family members caused them to be cursed into ghoul form. The mother-daughter ghoul team stay near their house lair and try to lure passersby on the road into their clutches for dining. They have not used armor and weapons but are very cunning and like traps.

Greetings!

Very cool, Jeff! I like the mother and daughter farmer thing--being so innocuous--and actually being some really disturbing villains! That's awesome, my friend. Cursed into being Ghouls! So awesome. Make them savage and vicious.

I also favour adding more grounded villains and opponents in a campaign. It flows from people's real experiences and relationships, things that people can relate to. I also think epic, super-villains have a place--but like cooking spices, a little is good, too much is bad.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on December 28, 2022, 08:34:36 AM
In any given campaign, I like ghouls in one of three roles.  I like to vary it from time to time to keep the players on their toes:

1. The traditional horde of frightening zombie substitutes, with paralyze touch (because the D&D zombie isn't that frightening).

2. Some variation of what Jeff said, though I'm more likely to do that with undead abilities that are a bit more severe than the D&D ghoul.  In that case, calling it a "ghoul" is misleading, but I don't mind the players making assumptions and then learning otherwise, as each campaign is different.

3. Fritz Leiber's take in Lankhmar, where "ghouls" are a society of people, with transparent skin, and some odd behaviors that set them outside normal human society. 

Basically, I'm either going to go with the classics or even the tropes, full bore, or if I'm going to subvert the expectations, I want to go full bore with that.

Greetings!

Excellent, Steven Mitchell! I agree. I like all of your approaches. I tend to do the same kinds of things.

I don't tend to think D&D needs dozens of different kinds or races of Undead. Pushing a few individual kinds and varying them by special abilities or attributes is more than adequate. I think lots of mileage can be had by playing with the intelligence, physical abilities, political and social dimensions. Ghoul warbands, Ghoul Kingdoms! Vampires aren't the only Undead that can organize and have hierarchies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

My Ghouls are of the more Arabic mythology variety* (closer to a vampire or demon) with a variety of powers traditionally attributed to them (such as taking on the form and memories of those they consume and mesmeric powers to draw in otherwise wary victims) and basically fill so much of the Vampire's traditional niche that I ended up dropping vampires entirely from the setting.

Indeed, I sort of did a wholistic rewrite or the undead in general, such that they are THE most existential evil facing the mortal world and are divided into mindless animates, wights (intelligent with a corporeal body; ghouls are demonically enhanced wights and what D&D calls a mummy and Lich are just wights wrapped in disease-ridden bandages to protect them from direct sun and wights of spellcasters respectively) and wraiths (intelligent incorporeal undead).

* Part of breaking hard from the OGL meant going back to original myths and legends for inspiration and much of my demonology ended up borrowing heavily from Middle Eastern myths and legends with Ifrit, Jinn, Kul'ul, Shedim and demon lords such as Moloch (embers), Pazuzu (dust), Lilith (miasma) and Tiamat (brine). Ghouls just naturally followed from that.

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2022, 10:33:59 AM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on December 28, 2022, 08:34:36 AM

3. Fritz Leiber's take in Lankhmar, where "ghouls" are a society of people, with transparent skin, and some odd behaviors that set them outside normal human society. 

Basically, I'm either going to go with the classics or even the tropes, full bore, or if I'm going to subvert the expectations, I want to go full bore with that.

I also like the way Lovecraft uses ghouls in The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, where they're still corpse-eating semi-undead, but with a language of their own, and some semblance of a society. If I was going to use ghouls in a campaign, I'd probably experiment with the idea of a ghoul kingdom. As others have said, fantasy gaming already has enough things in the "undead humanoid that attacks you in a dungeon" category.

Anyone interested in ghouls should read Brian McNaughton's The Throne of Bones.  The ghouls are a lot like Lovecraft's, but the fantasy setting (which is excellent) is more like something Clark Ashton Smith would invent.  Far more gory and (ugh) erotic than something Lovecraft would write, but that is in line with the sort of thing CAS would write too.  I suspect it was ghouls like these that Tom Moldvay had in mind when he included an inter-dimensional stairway to the Kingdom of the Ghouls in his Castle Amber module.

Yes, love undead in general, but it occurs to me there have been few on-screen portrayals of ghouls that I can recall...the Solomon Kane movie had what I thought were ghouls beneath the church/cemetary, any other on-screen portrayals of ghouls you can account for?

Quote from: I on December 28, 2022, 10:04:37 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2022, 10:33:59 AM
I also like the way Lovecraft uses ghouls in The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, where they're still corpse-eating semi-undead, but with a language of their own, and some semblance of a society. If I was going to use ghouls in a campaign, I'd probably experiment with the idea of a ghoul kingdom. As others have said, fantasy gaming already has enough things in the "undead humanoid that attacks you in a dungeon" category.

Anyone interested in ghouls should read Brian McNaughton's The Throne of Bones.  The ghouls are a lot like Lovecraft's, but the fantasy setting (which is excellent) is more like something Clark Ashton Smith would invent.  Far more gory and (ugh) erotic than something Lovecraft would write, but that is in line with the sort of thing CAS would write too.  I suspect it was ghouls like these that Tom Moldvay had in mind when he included an inter-dimensional stairway to the Kingdom of the Ghouls in his Castle Amber module.

That honestly sounds pretty awesome. I'm a huge CAS fan and sexy ghouls might be good for a laugh at least, so I'll have to add that to my reading queue. Thanks.

IIRC the Amber module(s?) were openly inspired by CAS' Averoigne stories, so the connection there might be more than incidental.

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2022, 10:38:42 PM

Quote from: I on December 28, 2022, 10:04:37 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2022, 10:33:59 AM
I also like the way Lovecraft uses ghouls in The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, where they're still corpse-eating semi-undead, but with a language of their own, and some semblance of a society. If I was going to use ghouls in a campaign, I'd probably experiment with the idea of a ghoul kingdom. As others have said, fantasy gaming already has enough things in the "undead humanoid that attacks you in a dungeon" category.

Anyone interested in ghouls should read Brian McNaughton's The Throne of Bones.  The ghouls are a lot like Lovecraft's, but the fantasy setting (which is excellent) is more like something Clark Ashton Smith would invent.  Far more gory and (ugh) erotic than something Lovecraft would write, but that is in line with the sort of thing CAS would write too.  I suspect it was ghouls like these that Tom Moldvay had in mind when he included an inter-dimensional stairway to the Kingdom of the Ghouls in his Castle Amber module.

That honestly sounds pretty awesome. I'm a huge CAS fan and sexy ghouls might be good for a laugh at least, so I'll have to add that to my reading queue. Thanks.

IIRC the Amber module(s?) were openly inspired by CAS' Averoigne stories, so the connection there might be more than incidental.

If you like Clark Ashton Smith then I can practically guarantee you'll like The Throne of Bones, then.  It's less like the Averoigne stories and more like the Zothique stories/"Empire of the Necromancers"/"Necromancy in Naat" in feel, though.  There's only one ghoul sex scene in the whole book, but it left me scarred for life, LOL.  Not all of the stories are about ghouls; most are about humans in this very grotty, decadent world, but the ghouls are intelligent and have their own culture, a bit like those of Lovecraft.

My ghouls are like fast zombies from the video game Left 4 Dead (with hulks, runners, blob subtypes, etc).

In my setting, I have a goddess of the eaters of the dead, and for the priests that follow her, the highest honor is to be eaten by her most (un)holy creation, the ghoul

Needless to say, there are not a lot of high-level living priests that are still following her, but there are several high-level undead priests