Quote from: Black Vulmea;541646My character's backstory is that he was raised in Brignoles and moved to Marseille to make his fortune.

He has two goals, become an actor and make money off his sword.

So, I guess I allow myself a one-sentence backstory.

I see what you did there, and where you're coming from. Real-world places are excellent short-hand for backstories, because just by putting that place into your character's story, you get all of its history and culture inserted without actually having to do a lot of tedious world-building. Maximum results, minimum effort.

I often do the same thing when I'm doing a character for Ars Magica; the locations in "Mythic Europe" are similar enough to their real-world historical counterparts that simply placing a character in one of them provides a lot of background information.

OTOH, if I'm working on a character for one of my GMs' home-brewed original settings, then I'm more than likely to contribute to the "world building" effort and write a thorough background story, including some new material expanding the setting's history, culture and geography. (Subject to the GM's approval; they usually approve.)

Quote from: Black Vulmea;541668You have a seat at my table anytime you like.

I hope I get the chance sometime.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;541674I see what you did there, and where you're coming from. Real-world places are excellent short-hand for backstories, because just by putting that place into your character's story, you get all of its history and culture inserted without actually having to do a lot of tedious world-building. Maximum results, minimum effort.

I often do the same thing when I'm doing a character for Ars Magica; the locations in "Mythic Europe" are similar enough to their real-world historical counterparts that simply placing a character in one of them provides a lot of background information.

OTOH, if I'm working on a character for one of my GMs' home-brewed original settings, then I'm more than likely to contribute to the "world building" effort and write a thorough background story, including some new material expanding the setting's history, culture and geography. (Subject to the GM's approval; they usually approve.)

I'm becoming a fangirl of ENTIRELY too many people it seems.  In situations like this I do similar things and appreciate it from the GM side, given I have limited time for worldbuilding unlike 30+ years ago.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;541667I have zero interest in playing a Batman-style character.

Which is useful to me. I must admit I would place that kind of character background as a prime requisite of a Swashbuckling Game, (Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernel, even d'Artagnan kind of qualifies). I know at least one system that actually requires you create a nemesis as part of character generation.

Final questions if I may. Is it just as a player you feel this way, or also as a GM? and if its as a GM do you limit your player's backgrounds?

Quote from: John Morrow;541670(4) I wonder whether Monte Cook thinks about himself primarily as a player or GM.  I think of myself primarily as a player, and I think a lot of the things that many game designers assume players really want comes from them projecting their GM preferences on players who don't necessarily have the same preferences.

That is an absolutely fascinating thought.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;541678That is an absolutely fascinating thought.

I agree and I do believe it completely skews your preferences.  For example I do run games but I'm clearly a player first in my mind.

Off Topic: I'm not entirely sure how to view you TCO given your opinion about me at TBP.  I am can't decide if you're subtlety trolling me or supporting me.

Quote from: Marleycat;541680I agree and I do believe it completely skews your preferences.  For example I do run games but I'm clearly a player first in my mind.

Off Topic: I'm not entirely sure how to view you TCO given your opinion about me at TBP.  I am can't decide if you're subtlety trolling me or supporting me.

It does skew things. I always skew the game towards action(not necessarily combat) because it's what I want.

My opinion of you at TBP is that you sometimes let your emotions or frustrations get the better of you and they punish people for that there. You get more grief there than you deserve because you don't play their moderation game.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;541682It does skew things. I always skew the game towards action(not necessarily combat) because it's what I want.

My opinion of you at TBP is that you sometimes let your emotions or frustrations get the better of you and they punish people for that there. You get more grief there than you deserve because you don't play their moderation game.

If I'm running a game I want clear character generation with no obvious system mastery required, it doesn't have to be simple or fast but obviously preferred. Things like lifepaths or Race/Career ala Warhammer I'm all for. As a player, as long as it's fun I can tolerate anything a few times. Either way it depends on the game system and campaign.  Does it still skew towards action, action, action as a player also?  And one more question ..how do you define action?

As for TBP you actually are not completely offbase. I post here precisely because I don't like or engage in wordplay.  I say what I mean and mean what I say and yes it gets me in trouble but what can you do, unless you enjoy trolling?

Quote from: jadrax;541677I must admit I would place that kind of character background as a prime requisite of a Swashbuckling Game, (Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernel, even d'Artagnan kind of qualifies).

D'Artagnan receives a favor from Tréville, a friend of his father's - that's the sum total of his backstory's influence on the events of the next thirty-plus years of his career at court.

Quote from: jadrax;541677I know at least one system that actually requires you create a nemesis as part of character generation.

Without knowing anything else, that sounds like a system I'd be disinclined to play.

Quote from: jadrax;541677Is it just as a player you feel this way, or also as a GM?

Yes, I prefer the players' characters to have sketchy backgrounds as well.

Quote from: jadrax;541677and if its as a GM do you limit your player's backgrounds?

I explain to the players that their characters' background is for their use in roleplaying their character, not mine as the referee. I do not write 'stories' or 'plots' around the adventurers.

Players in my Flashing Blades campaign may choose any of the Advantages and Secrets in the game, and I will of course work with whatever they select for their characters, but I don't make what they choose the focus of play. If a player chooses a sworn vengeance, then the object of his ire exists in the game-world and will respond to the adventurer's attempt to seek vengeance appropriately, but the world is filled with potential allies and rivals and I expect that the adventurers will pile much more on their plates than old grudges.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;541674I see what you did there, and where you're coming from.

Actually, I think you're reading into it a lot that isn't there.

He's from Brignoles because I didn't want him to be from Marseille. He could just as easily be from Grasse or La Ciotat for all the impact it has on roleplaying the character. It's a shorthand for, 'I'm not from around here,' nothing more.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;541645I have nothing to add other than to say that your avatar is my favorite episode of Twilight Zone.  Excellent taste.

I concur, you have excellent taste. It's one of my favorites as well, and I don't even wear glasses.

I usually love character generation, but only if the games I play allow me to do it quickly and without too much fuss. Shadowrun. Making my Shadowrun character took more time than doing my taxes. Maybe even two times more. I really don't want to go through that again, so I hope My Guy doesn't bite it (we may be switching back to 3.0 soon with that group, anyway). The situation is similar with high-level 3e characters, although at least 3e is presented better than SR. Some more character customisation than OD&D or Basic is welcome, up to simple skill systems, just don't go overboard.

Where I am with Monte is that when I am rolling up PCs, I don't know yet who they are and what they want to become. Those collections of stats will become characters during play, in one or two sessions. That's why I like randomness; it provides interesting combinations that can function as instant hooks. And if a Ride skill, Theology, Move Silently and Herbalism aren't the optimal choices for my Fighter, so be it. At least he will die an interesting person. And if he doesn't, I can explore where the campaign and his set of abilities take him.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;541695Actually, I think you're reading into it a lot that isn't there.

He's from Brignoles because I didn't want him to be from Marseille. He could just as easily be from Grasse or La Ciotat for all the impact it has on roleplaying the character. It's a shorthand for, 'I'm not from around here,' nothing more.

Maybe it's because I'm lazy as a GM or player but I get it and love it. Plug and Play and go from there, yup, color me a happy girl.

@Melan, your avatar scares me. I hope things are ok?

First, playing a randomly generated character and playing a pregen are EXACTLY THE SAME from a player's POV.

Second, here's how character creation typically went for me:

• Read the setting info, speak to the GM, and wait until a character concept comes to me.
• Try to implement that concept in game.
• Find out I cannot implement that concept.
  
• Compromise my vision in order to implement my character.
• Become overwhelmed and frustrated with the options.
• Become familiar enough with the options that I get distracted.
• Start optimizing combinations for effectiveness.
• End up with a character I don't know 0_o

This got so bad that I just started optimizing out the gate and then justifying, which works well for me as I can add character to anything, but not so well for others who just ended up with boring robots devoid of personality.

One of the biggest complaints about the new Marvel Heroic Roleplaying is that it doesn't have 'character generation' rules, which it totally does, it's just not constrained enough for some. And I can create a new character in that game in 2 minutes. Hell, I can even create that character DURING PLAY! Maybe that game's not perfect, but I want more games in which I can do this.

I think the source of the problem is that character generation rules are the gold reserve which maintains the value of XP, because only by restricting what you can take during character generation does XP have any value. So if you ditch chargen rules, you also have to come up with a fix for XP.

Quote from: chaosvoyager;541701First, playing a randomly generated character and playing a pregen are EXACTLY THE SAME from a player's POV.

They are not the same from this player's point of view.