Quote from: Benoist;541528So here are the questions: (1) do you like character generation yourself?

I enjoy character creation. Just like I enjoy makng worlds as a Gm, as a player I like digging through the books, thinking about my character, and making it happen. It is also helpful toward learning the rules of the game.

Quote(2) Would you play/enjoy an RPG that only allowed pregens?

Not really. This was my major issue with dragonlance when I first heard about it. Later you could make your own characters but if I remember the first modules were meant to be pregens. So my group avoided it initially. I might trust my own GM to make some pregens for me. That can be interesting once in a while. For the most part though, i would rather make my own characters.

Quote3 do you agree with Monte Cook there is more room for games who explore the concepts he's talking about there, with loads of pregens, no choices of development not frontloaded at generation, etc?

There is always room for different approaches. I imagine there are groups out there that will react favorably to these ideas. It doesn't really appeal to me though.

Quote(4) some other thoughts to share on the topic of character gen, pregens etc?

In the hands of a good Gm pregens can work great. I have been in some solid campaigns that relied on pregens signed by the GM. One good thing about them is they do force you to play a character you normally wouldn't. I just thik most players prefer to make their own characters.

I actually agree with most of what Monte said. I too, prefer to develop my character as the game progresses and dislike front-loaded choices. I, too, dislike fiddly and time-consuming character generation subsystems. (BTW, I think it's fucking rich to read this from the pen of Mr. Toughness Is Obviously A Trap Feat).

Even back in the day, I was bored to tears by Palladium's fiddlier character generation stuff. Sure, it's fun to pick your Borg's bionic implants, or your Ley Line Walker's spells, but jotting down each skill percentage (30% base, +4%/level, +7% IQ bonus, +15% OCC bonus, etc.) and sundry bonuses (+3 to roll with punch for being a Juicer, and another +2 from Hand to Hand: Expert, another +3 from Boxing and +2 from Acrobatics... and who the fuck remembers rolling with punches during combat anyway?).

Hell, the #1 thing keeping me off from running Eclipse Phase is the horribly fiddly character generation.

Also, GURPS.

Despite all this, though, I love creating a character. It's one of those opportunities that's so ripe with possibility... what will happen to this guy? Will he perish an ignonimious death, or rise to undreamed-of heights ofpower and glory? Champion a just cause, or sell himself to the highest bidder? etc. Pregens are expedient (and pretty much de rigueur in some situations, e.g. con games), but I do feel a bit robbed of something I enjoy when I'm handed one.

Also, some character generation schemes are games in and of itself. Some people on my group didn't like Traveller, but everyone had an absolute blast rolling up characters! One player went as far as saying that "chargen is more fun than the game itself." :eek: (mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa)

We just started a WFRP 2e game and again, everyone had a great time rolling up Jailers and Burghers. This time, they all agreed to leave EVERYTHING up to the dice, even when I gave them options.

So, I like character generation for what it is, and I like certain character generation subsystems even better (usually when there's randomness involved; makes the process feel more "gamey"). A good character generation system will tone down everything Monte is complaining about, even without randomness (Storyteller/Storytelling and Savage Worlds both spring to mind as non-random but straightforward character generation systems).

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;541561As deeply as I got into the chargen aspect of both 3E and 4E, I think they both went too far. I'm an addict, and I'll follow the system as far down as it goes. I once spent an entire week building a 12th level 3.5E Wizard from scratch. I'll take every bit of customization I can get, and there can't be too much for me, but I can realize its not necessarily good for the game as a whole.

I think a Star Wars Saga(core book) or World of Darkness level of character generation to be more or less ideal.

I had a friend like that, he drove me crazy talking about how he was building his character for like a week or two before the campaign, while I just waited to find out what WASN'T being played, roll it up and spend 30-60 minutes outfitting her and GO!

I hate pregens, but I don't like character generation. That is, I want to generate my own character but I want the process to be very fast, very simple, not require reading pages of skills/talents/perks/feats/whatever to be able to do so, and definitely not require balancing point costs or the like. A new player should be able to generate a good character in 5 or 10 minutes without any rules knowledge assuming the help of another player with basic knowledge of the system.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;541562This was my major issue with dragonlance when I first heard about it. Later you could make your own characters but if I remember the first modules were meant to be pregens. So my group avoided it initially.

Tangent and quibble (ignore freely :

The issue with the 1e AD&D DragonLance modules wasn't pregens per se, but it was the fact that the pregens were the established characters from the fiction which everyone had already read.  If the pregens were just random people from the setting and not the actual protagonists from the novels, then I think it would have been much easier to swallow from most people.

(1) do you like character generation yourself?

Generally no. I want to get on with it and play. Random rolled character generation if done right as with Icons can be a lot of fun and a create way to kick starts one's creativity but with complex, point based system system character generation mostly reminds me of filing a tax return and I find I lose the will to live long before I'm done.

(2) Would you play/enjoy an RPG that only allowed pregens?

I like pregens, as long as it's just bare bone abilities pregens without a pre-determined background and personality. On the other hand a system that relied entirely on pregen would feel a bit claustrophobic as every time you go back to playing that system you are always looking at the same pool of characters.

(3) do you agree with Monte Cook there is more room for games who explore the concepts he's talking about there, with loads of pregens, no choices of development not frontloaded at generation, etc?

I do agree with his general points. I do find having to make a lot of choices mildly stressful and I certainly don't want to spend the best part of a session just getting characters sorted out. But I have no idea what there is room for in the industry.

(4) some other thoughts to share on the topic of character gen, pregens etc?

The main I find is that what makes a character interesting to me, his personality and mannerisms, aren't usually on the character sheet anyway so putting a lot of time and effort in character creations doesn't really pay off for me. And even in those systems where these are catered for my the system like Fate and Icons' Aspects I still prefer option rule that allows you to create these on the fly than trying to work in all out cold during a character generation session.

I just want to generate a character and play, not sit fiddling around building one.

Random is fine. I'll think about how the generated parts fit as play begins and the persona can interact with a world and actually have some context.

If I happen to fall into a pit trap and die before that happens then no effort is wasted.

Quote from: Marleycat;541565I had a friend like that, he drove me crazy talking about how he was building his character for like a week or two before the campaign, while I just waited to find out what WASN'T being played, roll it up and spend 30-60 minutes outfitting her and GO!

The week in question was more about writing out all the monsters I intended to summon or polymorph people into, and writing out the exact effects of every spell I had, and less about actual generation. I might have spent 6-8 hours generating the character with using the 3E CharOp forum as a reference. The extra time was spent allowing me to run that character from 12th-16th level without having to stop play to check the books.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;541572The week in question was more about writing out all the monsters I intended to summon or polymorph people into, and writing out the exact effects of every spell I had, and less about actual generation. I might have spent 6-8 hours generating the character with using the 3E CharOp forum as a reference. The extra time was spent allowing me to run that character from 12th-16th level without having to stop play to check the books.

Way too much investment for me. But hey different strokes and all that.

1) Yes
2) That would not be an RPG, it would be some other type of game
3) As long as I do not have to go anywhere near them I do not care
4) Character generation with a random component is often awesome

Quote from: jadrax;5415784) Character generation with a random component is often awesome

My tolerance for random character generation is inversely proportionate to the amount of time I'm going to spend playing that character.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;541580My tolerance for random character generation is inversely proportionate to the amount of time I'm going to spend playing that character.

This is why there needs to be adjustability dials in the game...playing a 1e style game? Random rolls all the way, playing 3/4e? Point buy all the way. Let each table decide because the eariler editions there was a far higher lethality level than the later iterations. And both are the baseline for that particular style.

Chargen is okay - lifepath systems are the most fun - but I can't stand games which front-load chardev; it's my biggest hangup with d20 games. If I can't play Gimli of Arabia, then the system is making too many demands of me upfront.

I want chargen. I do not want to play a character that is not "mine."  

The "mine" is defined as having significant input the characters, goals, personality, and abilities.



However, I do find cons, and one shots may use pre-gens, and I'll accept that for the circumstances.

Then again, there is a reason I'm not a fan of most Japanese CRPG's--I can't make my own person. Unlike western RPG's where I usually can make personal choices for the character.

Just merged Mistwell's thread with this one.