TheRPGSite

So, I've post a couple times before, but the situation is as follows: I'm designing a classic adventure & politics style RPG for table top, with brand new rules. I've got a races, classes and customization and simulation up the yin yang, hell, it even plays fast after character creation.

Alas, I have a hurdle. So in developing this world, which I'm not going to talk much on, there is a high level of engineering (dwarves, traps, dungeons, industry) which comes into play about as often as dungeon or a political encounter, but it's rooted to the game. AS a result I have summed lock picking, traps and dungeon stuff so on into mechanical stuff, but I need a little flavor for the class that specializes in this facet as I myself am more of a Rogue, Mage and Druid player.

So, can you fine people tell me if there are any good games and classes that feature Mechanics as primary focus. I'm sure theres a whole lot of steam punk and super hero stuff, but I'm primarily working from a classic fantasy style, though I'll happily take whatever research I can get.

1E AD&D had engineers as NPCs, though it didn't have set rules for how to play out their skills. Later editions had various skills where you rolled a d20 under the relevant ability scores. Personally, I wouldn't bother with creating  a new class, except maybe as a specialist NPC since it's easy to picture any of the four basic classes having those skills and more importantly, no reason to deny them those skills.

For example, some fighter-types might have engineering skills due to experience in sieges and/or training with siege engines. A magic-user or cleric would be the most likely to have formal education (which could include engineering and architecture), and thieves or bards might know quite a bit about traps, locks and -especially with bards- knowledge of the arts, including architecture.

The dwarf my nick was dereived from, is a Rolemaster engineer with some fitting spell lists.

The ACKS Player's Companion has the Dwarven Machinist, who also builds clockwork automatons in addition to handling locks and traps.

Tinker Gnomes.

One of the 5e Gnome types like to tinker with gadgets. But theres no mechanics for it so far other than a starting gadget.

Theres also a 5e fan made Inventor class. I have been using it at a greatly tweaked and reduced power level as an NPC class.

Check out Fantasy Craft from Crafty Games. There's lots of nifty system tie ins in that game.

I created a Talent class for OD&D that included Thief, Leech, Apothecary, Smith, Miner, and Tinkerer as variants, but my approach was more improvisational than you are probably looking for. I remixed the Thief so that the class has three broad abilities: Surprise Attack, Stealth (combining Hide in Shadows, Pick Pocket, and Move Silently,) and Cleverness (combining Pick Locks, Remove Traps, and Read Treasure Map/Magic Scroll.) Other Talent classes would likewise have two abilities that work like the Thief's Stealth and Cleverness skills, and one other ability similar to Surprise Attack. I didn't do a formal write-up of the Tinkerer, just some early notes on how it would work the same way as the Thief, but I did do a write-up on the Apothecary class (http://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-apothecary.html) (further examples of apothecary combustibles here (http://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2013/07/apothecary-combustibles.html).) I'm thinking of making some changes to that, but when I do a formal write-up of the Tinkerer, it would resemble the Apothecary: no multi=page write-up of traps and machines, just a table or two and some quick notes on how to use it to improvise machines. The Tinkerer's abilities would be identification and manufacture of machines (parallels Apothecary abilities with same name) and mechanical ingenuity, which is basically a level bonus when trying to make a quick modification of a trap or use a high-tech artifact.

What I still need to do: figure out the Tinkerer's table that matches the Apothecary's compound formulas.  Just as the Apothecary has six forms of compound (liquid, salve, powder, incense, perfume, acid) keyed to the first six levels, there should be six forms of machine for the Tinkerer. A projectile launcher should probably be Level 3, to match the Apothecary's Level 3 powders, and I'm guessing energy beams would be Level 6, but I don't have anything else worked out.

Both 3e and 4e D&D had the Artificer class. Certainly 4e had loads of powers for it which might give you some ideas to use. Both in the respective Eberron supplements.

Shadowrun has Riggers - that might be a useful source to mine.

Ehh?

Lamentations of the Flame Princess has the "Specialist" class (instead of the thief) which gives the player options in how to increase thief like skills. Though it isn't specifically towards mechanics it shows an interesting way to allow diversity with a specific class.

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;903579Ehh?

Lamentations of the Flame Princess has the "Specialist" class (instead of the thief) which gives the player options in how to increase thief like skills. Though it isn't specifically towards mechanics it shows an interesting way to allow diversity with a specific class.

The original Dark Albion campaign started out using LotFP rules, and right from the start I used the Specialist class in this way. Specialist PCs could use their skill points for any of the 'standard' thief skills, or they could apply them to any other kind of skills.  So we had specialist Physicians, apothecaries, courtiers, etc.

Robotech as the Mechanical Engineer O.C.C.  But I do not think there will be anything useful to steal.

Quote from: RPGPundit;903990The original Dark Albion campaign started out using LotFP rules, and right from the start I used the Specialist class in this way. Specialist PCs could use their skill points for any of the 'standard' thief skills, or they could apply them to any other kind of skills.  So we had specialist Physicians, apothecaries, courtiers, etc.

That...actually sounds good.  One of these days I'm going to have to check that game out.

+1 for LotFP Specialists

You could also opt for the Scrounger as detailed in Kevin Crawford's "Other Dust." You'd have to do some editing and I'm not sure if you want as extensive of a skill system, but the class is pitched towards mechanics.

TFT & GURPS have mechanical talents/skills, and In The Labyrinth describes a Mechanists' Guild, but they aren't generally the focus of play, nor do they have particularly detailed rules. The skills give increasing abilities to do things like notice something is mechanical, figure out what it does, disarm traps, or do things with devices & technological artifacts: disable them, change their function, repair them, analyze them, invent & build them, etc. GURPS has some point-based systems for evaluating the game value of different types of gadgets.

Quote from: Skarg;904315TFT & GURPS have mechanical talents/skills, and In The Labyrinth describes a Mechanists' Guild, but they aren't generally the focus of play, nor do they have particularly detailed rules.

Yes, but the OP is talking about Class and Level Exploration Fantasy, not Skills and Talents Exploration Fantasy. It's true that TFT is technically a class-based system, but there are only two classes, with Mechanics as a talent that simply improves trap skills. From the way the OP reads, it sounds like there's already a skill system in the new game, including trap and device-related skills. What the OP asks for is more flavor, to make mechanics more than just a skill bonus when picking locks or disarming traps.

One thing TFT might be useful for is the alchemy and chemistry rules in Advanced Wizard. Even though that's not engineering, it's brewing, it can serve as a guideline for composing parallel mechanical skills. I'm not really talking about the individual potion effects, here, but the forms (drinkable potion vs. gas bomb. I'll confess that this was an inspiration for the apothecary class I described upthread.

The magic item creation rules in TFT might be repurposed if you went through the list of spell effects and eliminated anything that couldn't be duplicated with physical methods. TFT magic items can have a maximum of five effects and the cost is multiplied for each additional effect beyond the first. That's not unreasonable as a limitation for designing machines.

Yes, and the section on inventing new spells & magic items might be useful for thinking about how to handle player inventions.

Quote from: WizardofthePress;903282So, I've post a couple times before, but the situation is as follows: I'm designing a classic adventure & politics style RPG for table top, with brand new rules. I've got a races, classes and customization and simulation up the yin yang, hell, it even plays fast after character creation.

Alas, I have a hurdle. So in developing this world, which I'm not going to talk much on, there is a high level of engineering (dwarves, traps, dungeons, industry) which comes into play about as often as dungeon or a political encounter, but it's rooted to the game. AS a result I have summed lock picking, traps and dungeon stuff so on into mechanical stuff, but I need a little flavor for the class that specializes in this facet as I myself am more of a Rogue, Mage and Druid player.

So, can you fine people tell me if there are any good games and classes that feature Mechanics as primary focus. I'm sure theres a whole lot of steam punk and super hero stuff, but I'm primarily working from a classic fantasy style, though I'll happily take whatever research I can get.

I'd have to say I would go with Andy Collins, Dave Noonan, Jesse Decker, & Rich Redmans' Expert Class, from Unearthed Arcana. Yes... the d20 glut produced a ton of marginal d20 supplements and add-ons, Unearthed Arcana was not amongst them however, and was one of the more awesome toolkit books for the 3e era around... Here is the detail on the Expert Class reproduced here for your research query.

Expert
HD=d6
Class Skills - any 12 plus craft and profession
Skill Points at 1st level: (6+Int Modifer)*4
Skill Points each additional level: 6+Int Modifer
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All Simple Weapons, one Martial Weapon, Light Armor


*Level*BaB*Good Save*Poor Save*Bonus -
1st*+0*+2*+0*Bonus Feat
2ndt*+1*+3*+0*Bonus Feat
3rd*+2*+3*+1*-
4th*+3*+4*+1*Bonus Feat
5th*+3*+4*+1*-
6th*+4*+5*+2*-
7th*+5*+5*+2*-
8th*+6/+6*+2*+2*Bonus Feat
9th*+6/+6*+2*+3*-
10th*+7/+2*+7*+3*-
11th*+8/+3*+7*+3*-
12th*+9/+4*+8*+4*Bonus Feat
13th*+9/+4*+8*+4*-
14th*+10/+5*+9*+4*-
15th*+11/+6/+1*+9*+5*-
16th*+12/+7/+2*+10*+5*Bonus Feat
17th*+12/+7/+2*+10*+5*-
18th*+13/+8/+3*+11*+6*-
19th*+14/+9/+4*+11*+6*-
20th*+15/+10/+5*+12*+6*Bonus Feat

Suggested Bonus Feats & Class Skills(Mine)

Feats: Siege Engineer (Catapults), Siege Engineer(Trebuchet). Siege Engineer(Onager), Siege Engineer(Battering Ram), Siege Engineer(General), Construction, Construction Foreman, Engineering Workshop, Sapper, Bridge Building, Road Making, Castle Construction, Military Engineer, Hydraulic or Water Engineering, Wind Engineering, Locksmith, Civil Engineering, Mechanical Design, Boatbuilder, Shipwright, Solar Engineering (Think Archimedes of Syracuse with his polished shields which ignited stuff far away).

Skills: Trap Making, Masonry, Stone Cutting, Metallurgy, Glass Blowing, Hydraulic or Water Engineering, Wind Engineering, Solar Engineering, Lockpicking, Boatbuilding

Archimedes of Syracuse and his Death Contraptions;
http://www.engineering.com/Library/ArticlesPage/tabid/85/ArticleID/12/categoryId/5/Archimedes-of-Syracuse.aspx

Four Amazing Inventions of Archimedes;
http://www.hexapolis.com/2015/07/07/4-remarkable-inventions-of-archimedes-that-still-baffle-us/

Unearthed Arcana, one of those unpolished gems is available for a modest $14.96 plus shipping from Amazon here;

https://www.amazon.com/Unearthed-Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying/dp/0786931310/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466815747&sr=8-1&keywords=unearthed+arcana+3.5

and from Ebay for $19.99 plus shipping here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unearthed-Arcana-D-D-3-0-3-5-d20-Excellent-Shape-/371575502070?hash=item5683a034f6:g:7KkAAOSwwpdW6A72

Also there is the Master Siege Engineer  Prestige Class designed by Andy Collins, still available here;
http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/general/mastersiege.shtml

In that novel mc wake up in the game he played and he is a mechanic in that game you might get good intro of mechanics after 200 chapters but basic intro is before 200. Good luck with it.

The Two-Fisted Technician from White Star might be just what you're searching for. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222119/White-Star-Galaxy-Edition-Swords--Wizardry (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222119/White-Star-Galaxy-Edition-Swords--Wizardry)

or maybe this https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/223415/NWG-Tinkerer-Class (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/223415/NWG-Tinkerer-Class)