Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 04:18:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 23, 2025, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2025, 04:27:12 PMWell, actual restaurants are not in fact, a modern invention. Ancient Rome had devloped restaurants. As I mentioned earlier, there were actual dedicated small buildings designed and used as fast food restaurants in ancient Rome. Archaeologists have found these throughout Rome. They have the floorplans and everything.

OK, fair point. There were thermopolia in ancient Rome that were fast food, and sorry about disagreeing.

Was there anything like this is medieval Western Europe? My reading is that there wasn't.

Greetings!

Thank you, Jhkim. It's all good though. Well, with restaurants, and so much more of the sophisticated, high culture and dynamic civilization that Rome built, much of it declined and all but disappeared during the Dark Ages. For *CENTURIES*, right? And Jhkim, also remember, there are some scholars that don't know what I know, or other specialists in ancient history. History is vast, and complicated, and it is difficult for any person to organize and know all the details about every region and every era of time. There are lots of blocks of history time that I'm weak in, as well, for example. Just the nature of knowledge and our own limitations.

The Dark Ages and then the Medieval period saw the disappearance of many aspects and standards of the Roman Empire, and eventually, the "rediscovery" of so many things as well in the following centuries. There are even things being discovered about the Roman Empire *now*--that we didn't know about them in previous centuries, despite impressive growth in our scholarship, knowledge, and understanding of the ancient world.

Just a few additional tidbits to amaze and boggle the mind--

Rome had slurpees. Fruit-flavoured snow-cones! Made by hand, on the spot. The Roman Emperors would enjoy these, as well as have them served to guests attending parties and celebrations. The Romans used basic cold-storage in subterranean chambers to mix and preserve ice brought in from the mountains far away. Lots of this would of course melt away during transit, but enough survived, that with each caravan trip, more and more ice was preserved, and able to be kept in storage. The Romans would crush the ice up in mugs, mix it with crushed fruit, and there you go! Fruit flavoured slurpees! Servants would make these up, and have them ready to go at a moment's notice.

We've known forever that Rome developed Concrete. However, now we also know that the Romans pioneered not just one kind of cement--but recipes for seven different kinds of concrete. The Romans used different concrete recipes based upon the kind of building to be designed, the local climate, and so on. Some of these recipes are equal or even superior to any modern concrete.

Hydro-Engineering; Rome was good at developing and working with pipes. That's fairly simple though. Rome did far more than that though. Rome developed techniques of welding, as well as underwater welding! Underwater welding??? Yeah. It's wild! The Romans used different welding techniques based upon the kind of metals being welded, temperatures control, outcome tolerances, all kinds of cool little details. Aqueducts, bringing tens of thousands of gallons of water from water sources hundreds of miles away, up and down mountains, to supply cities with vast populations and supply them with abundant fresh water for everything, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Sewage systems--Rome had extensive sewage system tunnels as a standard urban feature, collecting, and channeling raw sewage into selected marshes and pits for removal of the sewage. Thus, Roman cities provided a much cleaner environment, for more people, most of the time to a much higher standard than other cultures.

Caracalla's Baths: This enormous bathhouse and gymnasium, was a kind of "wonder of the world"--really only somewhat matched in our own modern era. Caracalla's Baths were a vast complex of bathhouses, gymnasiums, restaurants, massage parlours, and brothels, all interconnected and designed to provide service to, something like 15,000 people at a time. At least 5,000 people. I forgot the exact number, but it was enormous. Rome encouraged daily cleanliness, baths, and exercise--for everyone, not just the wealthy elites. The great Caracalla's Baths were open and free for all Roman citizens. All crafted from concrete, marble, gold, ivory, mosaics, fine artwork, gigantic planters with plants in them, secluded areas where bands of musicians provided constant music. Steam rooms, hot rooms, cold rooms, all with fresh, running water. Exercise rooms with weights and gadgets and toys to exercise with, and stay in good shape. Not much different from our own deluxe modern gymns today.

Of course, the Roman baths also had nice slaves that would use scrapers on you, to scrape the dead skin from your body, groom you, and rub you down with warm, scented oils. Yes, when done, you were clean, refreshed, and felt like an entirely new man! *Laughing* These services were also available for women patrons as well. Then, of course, there were brothels in-house that provided other pleasures and services for patrons. After bathing, a thorough work-out, Roman patrons would often gather with friends at a restaurant to enjoy a meal together, and discuss politics and current events.

Just amazing stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What's your source on the welding/underwater welding thing?

Quote from: Spobo on April 24, 2025, 06:43:57 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 04:18:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 23, 2025, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2025, 04:27:12 PMWell, actual restaurants are not in fact, a modern invention. Ancient Rome had devloped restaurants. As I mentioned earlier, there were actual dedicated small buildings designed and used as fast food restaurants in ancient Rome. Archaeologists have found these throughout Rome. They have the floorplans and everything.

OK, fair point. There were thermopolia in ancient Rome that were fast food, and sorry about disagreeing.

Was there anything like this is medieval Western Europe? My reading is that there wasn't.

Greetings!

Thank you, Jhkim. It's all good though. Well, with restaurants, and so much more of the sophisticated, high culture and dynamic civilization that Rome built, much of it declined and all but disappeared during the Dark Ages. For *CENTURIES*, right? And Jhkim, also remember, there are some scholars that don't know what I know, or other specialists in ancient history. History is vast, and complicated, and it is difficult for any person to organize and know all the details about every region and every era of time. There are lots of blocks of history time that I'm weak in, as well, for example. Just the nature of knowledge and our own limitations.

The Dark Ages and then the Medieval period saw the disappearance of many aspects and standards of the Roman Empire, and eventually, the "rediscovery" of so many things as well in the following centuries. There are even things being discovered about the Roman Empire *now*--that we didn't know about them in previous centuries, despite impressive growth in our scholarship, knowledge, and understanding of the ancient world.

Just a few additional tidbits to amaze and boggle the mind--

Rome had slurpees. Fruit-flavoured snow-cones! Made by hand, on the spot. The Roman Emperors would enjoy these, as well as have them served to guests attending parties and celebrations. The Romans used basic cold-storage in subterranean chambers to mix and preserve ice brought in from the mountains far away. Lots of this would of course melt away during transit, but enough survived, that with each caravan trip, more and more ice was preserved, and able to be kept in storage. The Romans would crush the ice up in mugs, mix it with crushed fruit, and there you go! Fruit flavoured slurpees! Servants would make these up, and have them ready to go at a moment's notice.

We've known forever that Rome developed Concrete. However, now we also know that the Romans pioneered not just one kind of cement--but recipes for seven different kinds of concrete. The Romans used different concrete recipes based upon the kind of building to be designed, the local climate, and so on. Some of these recipes are equal or even superior to any modern concrete.

Hydro-Engineering; Rome was good at developing and working with pipes. That's fairly simple though. Rome did far more than that though. Rome developed techniques of welding, as well as underwater welding! Underwater welding??? Yeah. It's wild! The Romans used different welding techniques based upon the kind of metals being welded, temperatures control, outcome tolerances, all kinds of cool little details. Aqueducts, bringing tens of thousands of gallons of water from water sources hundreds of miles away, up and down mountains, to supply cities with vast populations and supply them with abundant fresh water for everything, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Sewage systems--Rome had extensive sewage system tunnels as a standard urban feature, collecting, and channeling raw sewage into selected marshes and pits for removal of the sewage. Thus, Roman cities provided a much cleaner environment, for more people, most of the time to a much higher standard than other cultures.

Caracalla's Baths: This enormous bathhouse and gymnasium, was a kind of "wonder of the world"--really only somewhat matched in our own modern era. Caracalla's Baths were a vast complex of bathhouses, gymnasiums, restaurants, massage parlours, and brothels, all interconnected and designed to provide service to, something like 15,000 people at a time. At least 5,000 people. I forgot the exact number, but it was enormous. Rome encouraged daily cleanliness, baths, and exercise--for everyone, not just the wealthy elites. The great Caracalla's Baths were open and free for all Roman citizens. All crafted from concrete, marble, gold, ivory, mosaics, fine artwork, gigantic planters with plants in them, secluded areas where bands of musicians provided constant music. Steam rooms, hot rooms, cold rooms, all with fresh, running water. Exercise rooms with weights and gadgets and toys to exercise with, and stay in good shape. Not much different from our own deluxe modern gymns today.

Of course, the Roman baths also had nice slaves that would use scrapers on you, to scrape the dead skin from your body, groom you, and rub you down with warm, scented oils. Yes, when done, you were clean, refreshed, and felt like an entirely new man! *Laughing* These services were also available for women patrons as well. Then, of course, there were brothels in-house that provided other pleasures and services for patrons. After bathing, a thorough work-out, Roman patrons would often gather with friends at a restaurant to enjoy a meal together, and discuss politics and current events.

Just amazing stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What's your source on the welding/underwater welding thing?

Greetings!

Well, after studying ancient history for decades, I cannot remember the precise source. Here are a few documentary resources that should be interesting and entertaining. It is also noteworthy to remember, everything that Carthage accomplished and developed--Rome also was keen to embrace, adapt, and use thoroughly in the forging of the Roman Empire.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 24, 2025, 06:30:13 PMInteresting Shark.
I'd definitely have food stalls (with a regions local food). You couldn't play in WFRP without having some pie vendor trying to sell you his latest baked pies (probably made from human flesh). LOL

But absolutely no coffee shops... Any player looking for a Laté can shove it up their ass!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Excellent, my friend! Yeah, campaigns need to have food vendors selling fruit pies, and savory, well-spiced meat pies! (Stuffed with mystery meat!)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Nihil novi sub sole...

That said, I think a lot pub fare could legitimately be classified as "fast food", so that fits in here. Also I watched Conan the Barbarian for about the 1000th time the other day and he literally buys what looks like a lizard on a stick from a street vendor to eat...the ultimate take out meal.

Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 10:01:22 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 24, 2025, 06:30:13 PMInteresting Shark.
I'd definitely have food stalls (with a regions local food). You couldn't play in WFRP without having some pie vendor trying to sell you his latest baked pies (probably made from human flesh). LOL

But absolutely no coffee shops... Any player looking for a Laté can shove it up their ass!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Excellent, my friend! Yeah, campaigns need to have food vendors selling fruit pies, and savory, well-spiced meat pies! (Stuffed with mystery meat!)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

As long as it tastes good, never ask.

Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 04:18:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 23, 2025, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2025, 04:27:12 PMWell, actual restaurants are not in fact, a modern invention. Ancient Rome had devloped restaurants. As I mentioned earlier, there were actual dedicated small buildings designed and used as fast food restaurants in ancient Rome. Archaeologists have found these throughout Rome. They have the floorplans and everything.

OK, fair point. There were thermopolia in ancient Rome that were fast food, and sorry about disagreeing.

Was there anything like this is medieval Western Europe? My reading is that there wasn't.

Greetings!

Thank you, Jhkim. It's all good though. Well, with restaurants, and so much more of the sophisticated, high culture and dynamic civilization that Rome built, much of it declined and all but disappeared during the Dark Ages. For *CENTURIES*, right? And Jhkim, also remember, there are some scholars that don't know what I know, or other specialists in ancient history. History is vast, and complicated, and it is difficult for any person to organize and know all the details about every region and every era of time. There are lots of blocks of history time that I'm weak in, as well, for example. Just the nature of knowledge and our own limitations.

The Dark Ages and then the Medieval period saw the disappearance of many aspects and standards of the Roman Empire, and eventually, the "rediscovery" of so many things as well in the following centuries. There are even things being discovered about the Roman Empire *now*--that we didn't know about them in previous centuries, despite impressive growth in our scholarship, knowledge, and understanding of the ancient world.

Just a few additional tidbits to amaze and boggle the mind--

Rome had slurpees. Fruit-flavoured snow-cones! Made by hand, on the spot. The Roman Emperors would enjoy these, as well as have them served to guests attending parties and celebrations. The Romans used basic cold-storage in subterranean chambers to mix and preserve ice brought in from the mountains far away. Lots of this would of course melt away during transit, but enough survived, that with each caravan trip, more and more ice was preserved, and able to be kept in storage. The Romans would crush the ice up in mugs, mix it with crushed fruit, and there you go! Fruit flavoured slurpees! Servants would make these up, and have them ready to go at a moment's notice.

We've known forever that Rome developed Concrete. However, now we also know that the Romans pioneered not just one kind of cement--but recipes for seven different kinds of concrete. The Romans used different concrete recipes based upon the kind of building to be designed, the local climate, and so on. Some of these recipes are equal or even superior to any modern concrete.

Hydro-Engineering; Rome was good at developing and working with pipes. That's fairly simple though. Rome did far more than that though. Rome developed techniques of welding, as well as underwater welding! Underwater welding??? Yeah. It's wild! The Romans used different welding techniques based upon the kind of metals being welded, temperatures control, outcome tolerances, all kinds of cool little details. Aqueducts, bringing tens of thousands of gallons of water from water sources hundreds of miles away, up and down mountains, to supply cities with vast populations and supply them with abundant fresh water for everything, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Sewage systems--Rome had extensive sewage system tunnels as a standard urban feature, collecting, and channeling raw sewage into selected marshes and pits for removal of the sewage. Thus, Roman cities provided a much cleaner environment, for more people, most of the time to a much higher standard than other cultures.

Caracalla's Baths: This enormous bathhouse and gymnasium, was a kind of "wonder of the world"--really only somewhat matched in our own modern era. Caracalla's Baths were a vast complex of bathhouses, gymnasiums, restaurants, massage parlours, and brothels, all interconnected and designed to provide service to, something like 15,000 people at a time. At least 5,000 people. I forgot the exact number, but it was enormous. Rome encouraged daily cleanliness, baths, and exercise--for everyone, not just the wealthy elites. The great Caracalla's Baths were open and free for all Roman citizens. All crafted from concrete, marble, gold, ivory, mosaics, fine artwork, gigantic planters with plants in them, secluded areas where bands of musicians provided constant music. Steam rooms, hot rooms, cold rooms, all with fresh, running water. Exercise rooms with weights and gadgets and toys to exercise with, and stay in good shape. Not much different from our own deluxe modern gymns today.

Of course, the Roman baths also had nice slaves that would use scrapers on you, to scrape the dead skin from your body, groom you, and rub you down with warm, scented oils. Yes, when done, you were clean, refreshed, and felt like an entirely new man! *Laughing* These services were also available for women patrons as well. Then, of course, there were brothels in-house that provided other pleasures and services for patrons. After bathing, a thorough work-out, Roman patrons would often gather with friends at a restaurant to enjoy a meal together, and discuss politics and current events.

Just amazing stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 10:01:22 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 24, 2025, 06:30:13 PMInteresting Shark.
I'd definitely have food stalls (with a regions local food). You couldn't play in WFRP without having some pie vendor trying to sell you his latest baked pies (probably made from human flesh). LOL

But absolutely no coffee shops... Any player looking for a Laté can shove it up their ass!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Excellent, my friend! Yeah, campaigns need to have food vendors selling fruit pies, and savory, well-spiced meat pies! (Stuffed with mystery meat!)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Also "mystery meat" in stews and soups. It would not be uncommon for an inn or tavern to have a pot of soup or a stew that simmers throughout the day. How it was served really depends. It could be in a bowl, maybe in a mug. I would say even bread bowls wouldn't be out of the question. The tavern owner could purchase day old bread (or older) and use them.

The big thing is it's a cheap meal for the producer and the consumer. Soups and stews can be added to over time with whatever meat and vegetables you had, and it's usually foodstuffs that are going rancid. It would be uncouth but not uncommon for a tavern owner to do such a thing. The soup or stew would hide how spoiled the meat or vegies were.

I can't say for certain if any of this occurred. I only have a BA in History, with an emphasis on medieval Europe. I can confidently say that the potential is there. It wouldn't be a stretch from pasties, pies, the like.

An example of a stew that probably dates back to the medieval period is bigos, or hunter's stew. This stew is a mixture of cabbage, saurkraut, meat, and vegetables. I do make this during the colder months of the year. It's one of those stews that gets better as the days go on and the flavors get incorporated more.

I make mine with a bag of already shredded cabbage for cole slaw, a mix of saurkraut and red cabbage kraut, carrots, celery, onions, mushrooms (a MUST imo: mushrooms are flavor sponges) for my vegies.

Now you can add a can of diced tomatoes, but if you want to go medieval authentic, leave the tomatoes out. Tomatoes are a New World food item.

Meats: I use fried bacon with the fat. Yes, put the fat into the crock pot after frying. That's flavor buddy. I'll then add polish sausage/kielbasa, bratwurst, and a couple of ham hocks. If you can't get ham hocks, some diced ham will work in a pinch.

seasoning: MUST have garlic. No question. after that, peppercorns or cracked pepper, paprika, bay leaves, etc. Check the list on the wiki. IMO, you don't need salt. There's enough salt from the meats.

Let this all cook in a slow cooker/crock pot overnight. The aroma in the house is mouth-watering! IT will be ready by lunch. Grab yourself a heaping bowl and chow down. A good crusty bread would be good as a side. Polish or Jewish rye is a favorite for me.

I highly recommend giving it a go. It's easy and relatively cheap to make. I make it every year during the fall and winter months. It's a very hardy stew. In fact, every November my best friend on our pot luck game night always has a huge crock pot of it. It's amazing.

Quote from: blackstone on April 25, 2025, 09:00:20 AM

Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 04:18:51 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 23, 2025, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 23, 2025, 04:27:12 PMWell, actual restaurants are not in fact, a modern invention. Ancient Rome had devloped restaurants. As I mentioned earlier, there were actual dedicated small buildings designed and used as fast food restaurants in ancient Rome. Archaeologists have found these throughout Rome. They have the floorplans and everything.

OK, fair point. There were thermopolia in ancient Rome that were fast food, and sorry about disagreeing.

Was there anything like this is medieval Western Europe? My reading is that there wasn't.

Greetings!

Thank you, Jhkim. It's all good though. Well, with restaurants, and so much more of the sophisticated, high culture and dynamic civilization that Rome built, much of it declined and all but disappeared during the Dark Ages. For *CENTURIES*, right? And Jhkim, also remember, there are some scholars that don't know what I know, or other specialists in ancient history. History is vast, and complicated, and it is difficult for any person to organize and know all the details about every region and every era of time. There are lots of blocks of history time that I'm weak in, as well, for example. Just the nature of knowledge and our own limitations.

The Dark Ages and then the Medieval period saw the disappearance of many aspects and standards of the Roman Empire, and eventually, the "rediscovery" of so many things as well in the following centuries. There are even things being discovered about the Roman Empire *now*--that we didn't know about them in previous centuries, despite impressive growth in our scholarship, knowledge, and understanding of the ancient world.

Just a few additional tidbits to amaze and boggle the mind--

Rome had slurpees. Fruit-flavoured snow-cones! Made by hand, on the spot. The Roman Emperors would enjoy these, as well as have them served to guests attending parties and celebrations. The Romans used basic cold-storage in subterranean chambers to mix and preserve ice brought in from the mountains far away. Lots of this would of course melt away during transit, but enough survived, that with each caravan trip, more and more ice was preserved, and able to be kept in storage. The Romans would crush the ice up in mugs, mix it with crushed fruit, and there you go! Fruit flavoured slurpees! Servants would make these up, and have them ready to go at a moment's notice.

We've known forever that Rome developed Concrete. However, now we also know that the Romans pioneered not just one kind of cement--but recipes for seven different kinds of concrete. The Romans used different concrete recipes based upon the kind of building to be designed, the local climate, and so on. Some of these recipes are equal or even superior to any modern concrete.

Hydro-Engineering; Rome was good at developing and working with pipes. That's fairly simple though. Rome did far more than that though. Rome developed techniques of welding, as well as underwater welding! Underwater welding??? Yeah. It's wild! The Romans used different welding techniques based upon the kind of metals being welded, temperatures control, outcome tolerances, all kinds of cool little details. Aqueducts, bringing tens of thousands of gallons of water from water sources hundreds of miles away, up and down mountains, to supply cities with vast populations and supply them with abundant fresh water for everything, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Sewage systems--Rome had extensive sewage system tunnels as a standard urban feature, collecting, and channeling raw sewage into selected marshes and pits for removal of the sewage. Thus, Roman cities provided a much cleaner environment, for more people, most of the time to a much higher standard than other cultures.

Caracalla's Baths: This enormous bathhouse and gymnasium, was a kind of "wonder of the world"--really only somewhat matched in our own modern era. Caracalla's Baths were a vast complex of bathhouses, gymnasiums, restaurants, massage parlours, and brothels, all interconnected and designed to provide service to, something like 15,000 people at a time. At least 5,000 people. I forgot the exact number, but it was enormous. Rome encouraged daily cleanliness, baths, and exercise--for everyone, not just the wealthy elites. The great Caracalla's Baths were open and free for all Roman citizens. All crafted from concrete, marble, gold, ivory, mosaics, fine artwork, gigantic planters with plants in them, secluded areas where bands of musicians provided constant music. Steam rooms, hot rooms, cold rooms, all with fresh, running water. Exercise rooms with weights and gadgets and toys to exercise with, and stay in good shape. Not much different from our own deluxe modern gymns today.

Of course, the Roman baths also had nice slaves that would use scrapers on you, to scrape the dead skin from your body, groom you, and rub you down with warm, scented oils. Yes, when done, you were clean, refreshed, and felt like an entirely new man! *Laughing* These services were also available for women patrons as well. Then, of course, there were brothels in-house that provided other pleasures and services for patrons. After bathing, a thorough work-out, Roman patrons would often gather with friends at a restaurant to enjoy a meal together, and discuss politics and current events.

Just amazing stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

*Laughing* Absolutely hilarious, my friend! Such an excellent find, too! Monty Python! So awesome!

On a related note, it has always amazed me how brilliant and skilled the Romans were. Nothing really surprises me about Rome on one hand--and then yet, still I get amazed by some new thing, discovery, or angle that they approached some problem or embraced some breakthrough technique or technology. For a long time, I have concluded that modernists are arrogant and often pathetic and very smug and short-sighted about ancient Rome, but the ancient world in general. When you think about what the Carthaginians accomplished, the glorious Persians, the Greeks, the Romans--and then take a look at what the ancient Indians were doing, and the huge empires and dynasties of ancient China, it is mind blowing how vast, talented, skilled, and advanced the ancient civilizations were.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

So, have any of you thought of adventuring in dungeons is to collect exotic ingredients for meals, a la Dungeon Meshi?

Regarding stews, I like the idea of a perpetual stew in an inn or tavern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_stew

Quote from: Ruprecht on April 25, 2025, 01:52:40 PMRegarding stews, I like the idea of a perpetual stew in an inn or tavern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_stew

Bigos is considered a perpetual stew.

Quote from: SHARK on April 25, 2025, 09:44:56 AMOn a related note, it has always amazed me how brilliant and skilled the Romans were. Nothing really surprises me about Rome on one hand--and then yet, still I get amazed by some new thing, discovery, or angle that they approached some problem or embraced some breakthrough technique or technology. For a long time, I have concluded that modernists are arrogant and often pathetic and very smug and short-sighted about ancient Rome, but the ancient world in general. When you think about what the Carthaginians accomplished, the glorious Persians, the Greeks, the Romans--and then take a look at what the ancient Indians were doing, and the huge empires and dynasties of ancient China, it is mind blowing how vast, talented, skilled, and advanced the ancient civilizations were.

Yeah, that was one of the themes of my Incan-based fantasy campaign. The Incans had such developments - a network of highways with rope bridges, city planning, architecture, pottery, weaving, and art - that many people really don't appreciate. I used photos of real artifacts and art during the game.

Regarding the ancient world more generally -- I'm not a historian, but it seems like a big change in archeology recently is early cities with thousands of people that even predate agriculture. There's some fascinating stuff about Nebelivka in Ukraine, and Poverty Point in Louisiana.

The stereotype of ancient life as "nasty, brutish, and short" neglects the sort of complex thought and organization that people had.

Quote from: blackstone on April 25, 2025, 09:33:31 AM

Quote from: SHARK on April 24, 2025, 10:01:22 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 24, 2025, 06:30:13 PMInteresting Shark.
I'd definitely have food stalls (with a regions local food). You couldn't play in WFRP without having some pie vendor trying to sell you his latest baked pies (probably made from human flesh). LOL

But absolutely no coffee shops... Any player looking for a Laté can shove it up their ass!

Greetings!

*Laughing* Excellent, my friend! Yeah, campaigns need to have food vendors selling fruit pies, and savory, well-spiced meat pies! (Stuffed with mystery meat!)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Also "mystery meat" in stews and soups. It would not be uncommon for an inn or tavern to have a pot of soup or a stew that simmers throughout the day. How it was served really depends. It could be in a bowl, maybe in a mug. I would say even bread bowls wouldn't be out of the question. The tavern owner could purchase day old bread (or older) and use them.

The big thing is it's a cheap meal for the producer and the consumer. Soups and stews can be added to over time with whatever meat and vegetables you had, and it's usually foodstuffs that are going rancid. It would be uncouth but not uncommon for a tavern owner to do such a thing. The soup or stew would hide how spoiled the meat or vegies were.

I can't say for certain if any of this occurred. I only have a BA in History, with an emphasis on medieval Europe. I can confidently say that the potential is there. It wouldn't be a stretch from pasties, pies, the like.

An example of a stew that probably dates back to the medieval period is bigos, or hunter's stew. This stew is a mixture of cabbage, saurkraut, meat, and vegetables. I do make this during the colder months of the year. It's one of those stews that gets better as the days go on and the flavors get incorporated more.

I make mine with a bag of already shredded cabbage for cole slaw, a mix of saurkraut and red cabbage kraut, carrots, celery, onions, mushrooms (a MUST imo: mushrooms are flavor sponges) for my vegies.

Now you can add a can of diced tomatoes, but if you want to go medieval authentic, leave the tomatoes out. Tomatoes are a New World food item.

Meats: I use fried bacon with the fat. Yes, put the fat into the crock pot after frying. That's flavor buddy. I'll then add polish sausage/kielbasa, bratwurst, and a couple of ham hocks. If you can't get ham hocks, some diced ham will work in a pinch.

seasoning: MUST have garlic. No question. after that, peppercorns or cracked pepper, paprika, bay leaves, etc. Check the list on the wiki. IMO, you don't need salt. There's enough salt from the meats.

Let this all cook in a slow cooker/crock pot overnight. The aroma in the house is mouth-watering! IT will be ready by lunch. Grab yourself a heaping bowl and chow down. A good crusty bread would be good as a side. Polish or Jewish rye is a favorite for me.

I highly recommend giving it a go. It's easy and relatively cheap to make. I make it every year during the fall and winter months. It's a very hardy stew. In fact, every November my best friend on our pot luck game night always has a huge crock pot of it. It's amazing.

Greetings!

Blackstone, NICE recipe and cooking tutorial! Sounds damned tasty!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 25, 2025, 09:46:03 AMSo, have any of you thought of adventuring in dungeons is to collect exotic ingredients for meals, a la Dungeon Meshi?

Greetings!

Yeah, Jeff! I do, as a matter of fact! *Laughing*

I have an extensive Cooking Skill, that also provides through a variety of sources, Enchanted Cooking Recipes. The meals produced through such recipes provide various interesting benefits or abilities, usually of a temporary nature, but nonetheless interesting, potent, and worthwhile.

Part of that process definitely includes harvesting different kinds of meat, fruit, vegetables, grains, roots, whatever as part of the recipes. My group is often on the lookout for various ingredients for strange food recipes!

The adventures easily write themselves, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jhkim on April 25, 2025, 03:36:06 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 25, 2025, 09:44:56 AMOn a related note, it has always amazed me how brilliant and skilled the Romans were. Nothing really surprises me about Rome on one hand--and then yet, still I get amazed by some new thing, discovery, or angle that they approached some problem or embraced some breakthrough technique or technology. For a long time, I have concluded that modernists are arrogant and often pathetic and very smug and short-sighted about ancient Rome, but the ancient world in general. When you think about what the Carthaginians accomplished, the glorious Persians, the Greeks, the Romans--and then take a look at what the ancient Indians were doing, and the huge empires and dynasties of ancient China, it is mind blowing how vast, talented, skilled, and advanced the ancient civilizations were.

Yeah, that was one of the themes of my Incan-based fantasy campaign. The Incans had such developments - a network of highways with rope bridges, city planning, architecture, pottery, weaving, and art - that many people really don't appreciate. I used photos of real artifacts and art during the game.

Regarding the ancient world more generally -- I'm not a historian, but it seems like a big change in archeology recently is early cities with thousands of people that even predate agriculture. There's some fascinating stuff about Nebelivka in Ukraine, and Poverty Point in Louisiana.

The stereotype of ancient life as "nasty, brutish, and short" neglects the sort of complex thought and organization that people had.

Greetings!

Yeah, Jhkim, modernism has definitely maintained and promoted a particular narrative framework for several centuries now. Not all historians, of course, as there has always been a few dissident historians about. Then, even amongst more mainstream historians, there have always also been a few that would write works that seemed orthodox in most ways, and yet, deeper within the book, they would have a few paragraphs voicing a skepticism of the official narrative, or pose questions that the official narrative consistently fails to address, or they would include analysis of their own--or some dissident historian or archaeologist that talks more robustly about some alternative narrative, theme, or framework.

I have never really bought into much of the "Official Narrative". Especially in regards to armies, city populations, many kinds of technology, discoveries, and all of the wonders seen throughout the ancient world. The climate was different, the land, resources, a whole lot was radically different. I recall reading a particular historian talking about the early settlement and colonization of America, and how the rivers, the lakes, were bursting with fish like no one had seen in Europe for likely a millennium or more. Citing historical documentation, describing how choked and polluted and depleted much of Europe was in the 1600's. Then contrasting that with all of what the early colonists and explorers found going on in America. The contrast was absolutely *staggering* It was like someone had just walked into a glorious land overflowing with majestic wealth and resources of every kind. Rivers and lakes in America were absolutely *stuffed* with vast streams of fish, and the forests were bursting with enormous animal and bird populations.

Then, of course, well, modern scholars have not all been too keen on believing that the ancients were all that skilled or brilliant. Cue the standard Modernist narrative of the last 400 years. The Peruvians? I think--thousands of years ago, created terraced farming. Special techniques working with the seasons, while using a much smaller land footprint, right? That yielded massive crops and booming prosperity. Something like that. Pretty awesome stuff! The ancient South American farming techniques are *now* known to be so powerful and brilliant, that Moderns have embraced these ancient techniques and skills in their own regions where they are able to do so. And on and on.

We now know that India is probably the most agriculturally rich and fertile land on the planet. Professor Michael Wood, in his series, "The Story of India" talks about how fantastically fertile the land is in India, how the rich soil, enormous, regular rain seasons there, have for thousands of years allowed virtually any kind of crop or food to grow there in absolutely abundant ways, producing enormous levels of food. A huge section of southern India is so fertile, it allows THREE huge crops per year, instead of the normal two crops that we are accustomed to. Then, he talks about how the ancient Indians, the Tamils, other mighty peoples and kings in India, would skillfully harness irrigation techniques to exploit the water and soil, to create massive BOOMS in food supply. The human populations also exploded routinely, with massive and consistent growth, year after year.

Fishing, agriculture, hunting, on and on. It is mind boggling how talented and skilled and brilliant ancient civilizations were, not always everywhere in the world, of course, but in various places and locations, the knowledge, the innovation, the brilliance, was very often jaw-dropping and absolutely impressive!

I have also found it edifying and powerful to give the ancient historians and chroniclers the benefit of the doubt, and to trust them in many ways. Simply because so often, the Modernist assumptions have been demonstrated to be fraudulent, mistaken, woefully arrogant and off-base, or otherwise more interested in promoting a particular narrative--regardless of what the TRUTH would show or indicate.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK