Do SJWs Contribute Anything of Value, to the World of RPGs?

tenbones · June 17, 2020, 05:39:31 PM

All the more reason to use Savage Worlds for your D&D settings.

Spinachcat · June 18, 2020, 12:25:24 AM

Quote from: tenbones;1134708All the more reason to use Savage Worlds for your D&D settings.

This deserves its own thread discussion about how/why and what's gained/lost in the conversion.

insubordinate polyhedral · June 18, 2020, 12:29:19 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1134768This deserves its own thread discussion about how/why and what's gained/lost in the conversion.

Yeah, I'd love to see this thread, too. Savage Worlds is on my (admittedly way too long) list of "read but haven't played", and I love D&D.

Tom Kalbfus · June 20, 2020, 09:49:03 AM

All SJWs are politicians, they may call themselves writers or artists, but they are really into politics, their art is their primary means to push society in a certain direction, once they have made it in the art world, they start producing crap in order to force their political opinions on others, so a character may be included just for social justice and no other reason, these characters often don't fit into the story and are there solely for representation of the favored minority group at the time.

thedungeondelver · June 20, 2020, 10:25:57 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn;1133487I would argue that Eclipse Phase was a significant contribution to the transhumanist sci-fi genre in RPGs and those developers are extremely left.

Counterpoint: just watch or read Altered Carbon, throw in a little Lovecraftian horror, declare the Earth off-limits due to being overrun by the previously mentioned Lovecraftian horrors, and use your own favorite generic RPG system to simulate the rest.

EP your way.

Omega · June 21, 2020, 10:01:19 AM

Quote from: CRKrueger;1133982Well, are there SJW authors who have done significant work in the Storygame & Narrative Roleplaying space? Sure, of course.
Are there authors with Left-leaning or Liberal, or Democrat views that have done significant work in the traditional RPG space? Sure, of course.

Has anyone done any significant work when their politics are actually injected into the work or inform their work? Blue Rose, I guess. Otherwise, no.

Gumshoe has some virtue signalling as do a few others. Early stuff before the disease took full root. Then theres the increasing takeover of Chaosium and their ever more hateful virtue signalling being inserted into old works.

Anon Adderlan · June 21, 2020, 12:04:11 PM

Not only haven't #SJWs produced anything of worth, they've gone back to destroy their previous work which was.

Quote from: Altheus;1133565Dungeon World, simplest fantasy rpg to run ever.

DungeonWorld would never succeed today given those behind it.

Quote from: Itachi;1133764Well, thread author has his answer. Eclipse Phase, Fate and Dungeon World are influential enough and considered quality games by their target audience.

These were all written _prior_ to the authors becoming #SJWs.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1135388Counterpoint: just watch or read Altered Carbon, throw in a little Lovecraftian horror, declare the Earth off-limits due to being overrun by the previously mentioned Lovecraftian horrors, and use your own favorite generic RPG system to simulate the rest.

Adopting the work of two problematic authors at once? What are you some kind of edgelord?

HappyDaze · June 21, 2020, 12:26:14 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1135441Not only haven't #SJWs produced anything of worth, they've gone back to destroy their previous work which was.

DungeonWorld would never succeed today given those behind it.

The same might be said for the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and the Emancipation Proclamation. Regardless, all succeeded in their time.

Itachi · June 21, 2020, 02:22:53 PM

Isn't Harlem Unbound also explicit political? Seems a nice product regardless.

How about Bluebeard Bride?

jeff37923 · June 21, 2020, 02:25:06 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze;1135442The same might be said for the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and the Emancipation Proclamation. Regardless, all succeeded in their time.

If you think that any of the above mentioned are games, then you need to get your head examined.

GeekyBugle · June 21, 2020, 03:44:04 PM

Quote from: Itachi;1135460Isn't Harlem Unbound also explicit political? Seems a nice product regardless.

How about Bluebeard Bride?

Except if you read the intro where they claim that IRL, current year USA it's legal for the police to just up and kill black people.

Spinachcat · June 21, 2020, 05:05:14 PM

Anyone of any political persuasion could create a work of value, perhaps even lasting value.

However, by injecting politics into the work, or designing the work to be a political screed or propaganda tool, means that few people beyond those who adhere to the same ideology will find the work valuable.

The more radical the SJWs become, the more their potential audience shrinks, and thus the commercial viability of non-SJW works increases as more of the market feels abandoned.

Itachi · June 21, 2020, 07:29:59 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1135478Anyone of any political persuasion could create a work of value, perhaps even lasting value.

However, by injecting politics into the work, or designing the work to be a political screed or propaganda tool, means that few people beyond those who adhere to the same ideology will find the work valuable.

The more radical the SJWs become, the more their potential audience shrinks, and thus the commercial viability of non-SJW works increases as more of the market feels abandoned.

I agree, but isn't this orthogonal to the quality of the games they produce? Even the more pamphletary ones?

Eclipse Phase is a good example methinks. It explictly paints leftist factions in its setting in a better light than the conservative ones. Yet it's considered a good game and setting regardless.

Another example, perhaps more subtle, is Apocalypse World and it's progeny, which purposefully list LGBT+ looks options on the character sheet, in a clear move for inclusivity. And yet they're considered good and influential games regardless.

Tl;DR: SJW and proselytizing is bad in general. But in the end, a work is judged by it's quality, regardless of the author agenda(s).

GeekEclectic · June 21, 2020, 10:09:57 PM

Quote from: Itachi;1135516Another example, perhaps more subtle, is Apocalypse World and it's progeny, which purposefully list LGBT+ looks options on the character sheet, in a clear move for inclusivity. And yet they're considered good and influential games regardless.

I've played tons of Powered by the Apocalypse games over the years, including both editions of Apocalypse World itself. So I say this as a huge fan -- PbtA games have you indicate some truly meaningless and bizarre stuff on your character sheets. A lot. But whatever - it's a system so simple even I can run it(multiple successful campaigns under my belt, booyah!), so I can overlook the occasional little flaw.

Itachi · June 21, 2020, 10:45:21 PM

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1135552I've played tons of Powered by the Apocalypse games over the years, including both editions of Apocalypse World itself. So I say this as a huge fan -- PbtA games have you indicate some truly meaningless and bizarre stuff on your character sheets. A lot. But whatever - it's a system so simple even I can run it(multiple successful campaigns under my belt, booyah!), so I can overlook the occasional little flaw.

I think the gender craziness fits the psychedelic wasteland that Apocalypse World paints, but some hacks pasted it without much thought.