Quote from: Itachi;1133645The reasoning is the same: a preconception based on a characteristic that's orthogonal to the capacity to produce quality works.

Anyone can produce quality (or bad) works, whatever their ethny, religion, political stance or whatever.

Nope, you're born with sex, race and sexual orientation. Immutable characteristics.

Religion, communism, socjus, are ideologies, you have to be inducted into them and then choose to stay in them.

"Anyone" can produce quality works. But the question isn't can they? The question is HAVE they?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1133647Nope, you're born with sex, race and sexual orientation. Immutable characteristics.

Religion, communism, socjus, are ideologies, you have to be inducted into them and then choose to stay in them.

"Anyone" can produce quality works. But the question isn't can they? The question is HAVE they?

Haven't authors and artists of different ideologies produced quality work?

There, you have your answer. Why would the RPG field  (or any other) be different?

Quote from: Itachi;1133650Haven't authors and artists of different ideologies produced quality work?

There, you have your answer. Why would the RPG field  (or any other) be different?

For starters quality is a subjective term, so someone could (as they indeed did) say Dungeon World is an example of SocJusZealots producing quality work and therefore contributing to the hobby. But even granting them that DW is an RPG and that it did contribute to the hobby, donkeys, flutes and all that.

Personally I think the question should be if their contributions (what ever they might be) have outweighed all the detriment they bring.

And, it is from that point of view that I can say honestly NO. No matter what they might have contributed, their total contributions amount to negative numbers since they destroy way more than they build.

It's best to separate Creator from Creation. Otherwise, you have to sift every creative endeavor through ideological filters.

Of course, if something is overtly political or ideological, that's an easy pass because with many of those projects its clear the Creation isn't anything more than a propaganda piece disguised as a game.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1133658It's best to separate Creator from Creation. Otherwise, you have to sift every creative endeavor through ideological filters.

Of course, if something is overtly political or ideological, that's an easy pass because with many of those projects its clear the Creation isn't anything more than a propaganda piece disguised as a game.

I was literally just having this conversation with my editor wife. She was lamenting that writers today are *afraid* of doing normal adventure fiction today with heroic men AND women that are straight because big publishing houses (most of them) **require** diversity in their stories. Writers that are largely heterosexual and don't want to be forced into virtue signalling are a dying breed. They exist... but it will become increasingly rare.

The notion being that any attempts to do some baseline heroic shit we'd identify as standard adventure fare, *will* be attacked for not having enough in it, or some faux outrage at perceived normal behavior or descriptions - purely for the sake of outrage.

Nevermind the inevitable social-media trolling the Usual Suspects will go through looking for something to pin on the author. This is precisely why H.P. Lovecraft's works are now verboten, Heinlein, pretty much all the classic authors will fall to this zealotry in the long run.

There is a spreadsheet that Editors-at-large keep of payscales of authors as offered forth voluntarily on from publishing house editors - among the literal tables-fields in the spreadsheet (I shit you not) is Race of the Author and Sexual Orientation. This is coming from the Publishers... or independently volunteered information from independent editors to the publishing houses.

And under the Sexual Orientation column... I would *eyeball*, conservatively, at least 45% of the authors identify as Gay, Bi-Sexual, Pan-Sexual, Other-than-CIS. The straight people are forced to identify as CIS.

Yeah it's one of the reasons I'm going alternative routes in my publishing. Strange bedfellows are being made.

What GeekyBugle strawmanned is in my opinion simply a fascist. Same desire, different politics.

I think Pundit's proselytization of the term SJW as a pejorative is misled. He targeted it because these bad actors self-identified and he wanted to skewer them for their faux-activism trying to set the pace from their couch spitting at a monitor.

I think there should be a new term to succinctly identify the bad actors who want to control, censor, and rule. Fascist Outrage Oppressor. FOO. As in "that FOO is so far up my ass I can feel their shoelaces on my butt hole".

It's censorship, cancel culture, and fraught hang-wringing do what I tell you and don't dissent behavior (bullshit) that is the problem.

Do FOOs contribute anything to the hobby? Nope. If they were contributing they wouldn't have time to be FOOs.

Quote from: trechriron;1133680What GeekyBugle strawmanned is in my opinion simply a fascist. Same desire, different politics.

I think Pundit's proselytization of the term SJW as a pejorative is misled. He targeted it because these bad actors self-identified and he wanted to skewer them for their faux-activism trying to set the pace from their couch spitting at a monitor.

I think there should be a new term to succinctly identify the bad actors who want to control, censor, and rule. Fascist Outrage Oppressor. FOO. As in "that FOO is so far up my ass I can feel their shoelaces on my butt hole".

It's censorship, cancel culture, and fraught hang-wringing do what I tell you and don't dissent behavior (bullshit) that is the problem.

Do FOOs contribute anything to the hobby? Nope. If they were contributing they wouldn't have time to be FOOs.

Well you know, "racism/transphobia/etc." is merely the bicycle Leftists use to get across the finish line. It's just these particular tools they're using to fashion and operate that bicycle that we're grousing about because it's at our expence.

Quote from: tenbones;1133679Yeah it's one of the reasons I'm going alternative routes in my publishing. Strange bedfellows are being made.

You and your wife have the talent to launch a publisher of traditional adventure literature. If the mainstream houses have gone full retard, that opens the door to an alternative to sweep in and reach the audience ignored by them.

Facebook/IG advertising would be key to reach your desired demographic and grow a customer mailing list. It wouldn't be hard to spread the word to the audience you wanted. I'd also suggest a kids and teen line that was pro-America, pro-capitalism that promoted traditional values.

I'm surprised such a publishing house doesn't already exist. I doubt angel funding would be a problem.

Yes, the freaks would lose their shit, but you'd be rich if you could deliver high quality books to a hungry audience.

I'm also betting there are mid-tier successful authors who are sick of the retard pressure and would be happy to write under a pseudonym if your organization could be set up properly to maintain their anonymity.

You'd be like the erotica industry before the 80s. An economic powerhouse moving through the mail that nobody admitted to ever buying, reading, writing or publishing!

Until they decide to open and censor the mail.

Quote from: David Johansen;1133696Until they decide to open and censor the mail.

That's exactly why I started a thread in RPGPundit's forum discussing how a peaceful balkanization of the USA could occur.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42174-It-s-time-for-the-USA-to-balkanize-How-can-that-happen-peacefully

The key word is peaceful. All input to that thread is welcome.

Quote from: trechriron;1133680What GeekyBugle strawmanned is in my opinion simply a fascist. Same desire, different politics.

I think Pundit's proselytization of the term SJW as a pejorative is misled. He targeted it because these bad actors self-identified and he wanted to skewer them for their faux-activism trying to set the pace from their couch spitting at a monitor.

I think there should be a new term to succinctly identify the bad actors who want to control, censor, and rule. Fascist Outrage Oppressor. FOO. As in "that FOO is so far up my ass I can feel their shoelaces on my butt hole".

It's censorship, cancel culture, and fraught hang-wringing do what I tell you and don't dissent behavior (bullshit) that is the problem.

Do FOOs contribute anything to the hobby? Nope. If they were contributing they wouldn't have time to be FOOs.

I'm not strawmanning anything, it's their positions, and yes, thank you very much, they ARE fascists, but then again fascism has always been a socialist spawn and fascists are honest socialists.

Pundit didn't proselytize anything, they invented the term to refer to themselves, it had become a pejorative several years ago.

Sorry but no, just like I make fun of other ideologues using their own terms I will continue to do so with these ideologues. Social Justice isn't Justice at all.

The Alt-Right and the Ctrl-Left are just two sides of the same ugly coin.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1133699The Alt-Right and the Ctrl-Left are just two sides of the same ugly coin.

Ha! we disagree on the matter but this is very good. Makes total sense. Thanks.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1133699I'm not strawmanning anything, it's their positions, and yes, thank you very much, they ARE fascists, but then again fascism has always been a socialist spawn and fascists are honest socialists.

Pundit didn't proselytize anything, they invented the term to refer to themselves, it had become a pejorative several years ago.

Sorry but no, just like I make fun of other ideologues using their own terms I will continue to do so with these ideologues. Social Justice isn't Justice at all.

The Alt-Right and the Ctrl-Left are just two sides of the same ugly coin.

I am sure that we have talked about how the Left-Right spectrum is actually a circle

Quote from: Shasarak;1133709I am sure that we have talked about how the Left-Right spectrum is actually a circle

Liberal Conservatism.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was to convince people he didn't exist."

Quote from: Altheus;1133565Dungeon World, simplest fantasy rpg to run ever.

You can add Fate Core to the list. Evil Hat is fairly SJW as far as I'm aware.