honest thought as iv been reading up on infinity the game
and several threads resently it has been brought up how rps evolved from wars games so what do you guys think?

I think there's already a great deal of crosspollination.  Many popular war games like Chain Reaction and Chaos in Cairo are only a hair's breadth from being rpgs.

One thing I think would be interesting is something more like Warhammer's 2000 point game with random scenario elements.  Where people could bring pre-balanced characters and engage in an adventure with structured random elements.

I know, 10th level characters and a module with random encounters but running a module requires preparation in the form of reading.  I'm talking about randomized elements that form an adventure or perhaps even a random setting.

Quote from: kosmos1214;893967honest thought as iv been reading up on infinity the game

Mechanically, I can say fairly authoritatively that Infinity was directly influenced by the miniature game's mechanics for hacking programs. (Although we ended up a fair distance away by the time we were finished developing the concept.)

So, yes.

As a designer, I think you can draw mechanical inspiration from many different genres of games: War games. Board games. Card games. Video games.

In a word, yes. There are books on organising wargame campaigns that are better GMing guides than most How to GM sections:).

Quote from: David Johansen;893968I know, 10th level characters and a module with random encounters but running a module requires preparation in the form of reading.  I'm talking about randomized elements that form an adventure or perhaps even a random setting.

So, a hexcrawl;)?

Yes but one where the GM shuffles a stack of hexes and lays them out on the table as the party explores, and the encounters from civilizations to wildlife are randomly generated.  Dungeons and towns can be done with shuffled square tiles.  Make that DM WORK for a living.

Starfire Empires kind of does this though it's more detail and book keeping than the love child of a GURPS and Rolemaster GM would want to bother with.

Quote from: David Johansen;893987Yes but one where the GM shuffles a stack of hexes and lays them out on the table as the party explores, and the encounters from civilizations to wildlife are randomly generated.  Dungeons and towns can be done with shuffled square tiles.  Make that DM WORK for a living.

The old RUNE game from Atlas Games isn't exactly what you're looking for either, but its concept of adventure modules being built around (IIRC) a point budget because the idea was that each player would bring a chunk of scenario to each session which would be run competitively against the other PCs seems like it might be playing around in a similar bailiwick.

Quote from: David Johansen;893987Yes but one where the GM shuffles a stack of hexes and lays them out on the table as the party explores, and the encounters from civilizations to wildlife are randomly generated.  Dungeons and towns can be done with shuffled square tiles.  Make that DM WORK for a living.

You do realise that designing a good, interesting dungeon or a social setting like a town or city with elements conductive to a good campaign is actually a LOT more work than just drawing or rolling everything at random, right?

RPGs need a refresher course on how not to be wargames.

Quote from: kosmos1214;893967so what do you guys think?

I think that we have too many RPGs for our own good. Hardly any new game is original, interesting and fresh enough to sacrifice both time to learn it and energy to convince players to play it.

With that in mind, instead of RPGs trying to reinvent the wheel, I'd rather see all those really interesting scraps and bits being used as expansions for already written games and PLAYERS moving their lazy asses, studying various aspects of general RPGaming, embracing new ideas, styles of play, opening to new possibilities and such.

I know it's not exactly the best answer, but that's what I think.

I've had wargames built into my RPGs from the start, since I started with The Fantasy Trip. I feel like big things are missing almost any time an RPG combat doesn't have a map, counters, rules for movement, facing, etc etc etc.

Clearly though, everyone has different tastes, and each game offers different stuff. So yes, but it's not like there's one best path for anyone.

I would say the Melee from The Fantasy Trip is a great way to take a peek, since the rules are very short and easy to learn, and it's all just about setting up melee combats and playing them out. Add Death Test (a programmed adventure that can be played solo) for a little more context.

I've seen some games that look like they might be interesting hybrids. Look for Rattrap Productions and Two Hour Wargames.

Quote from: AsenRG;893984In a word, yes. There are books on organising wargame campaigns that are better GMing guides than most How to GM sections:).

Can you name some names?

Quote from: Premier;894033You do realise that designing a good, interesting dungeon or a social setting like a town or city with elements conductive to a good campaign is actually a LOT more work than just drawing or rolling everything at random, right?

Sure, first time we played Warhammer Quest there were three minotaurs in the first room

And I always build my own worlds.

But I'm talking about something like Traveller's UWP generation reduced to an at the table activity.  Not as a board game or some such but as an actual exploration as you go.

Death Test actually isn't that great of a dungeon, lots of rooms full of random war bands.  The premise is fun but it's not one of these pre-built balanced encounter things.

I'll admit I've always wanted to use something like Star Fire Empires to run a Star Trek style exploration game.  Your ship goes through the warp point (you've got to use them or else why not just use long range scans before going anywhere) and you start generating sensor results.

I'm not saying every rpg should be this or that it's the only thing, but there's something in the on the fly, no preparation required nature of it that might be fun.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;894044I think that we have too many RPGs for our own good. Hardly any new game is original, interesting and fresh enough to sacrifice both time to learn it and energy to convince players to play it.

With that in mind, instead of RPGs trying to reinvent the wheel, I'd rather see all those really interesting scraps and bits being used as expansions for already written games and PLAYERS moving their lazy asses, studying various aspects of general RPGaming, embracing new ideas, styles of play, opening to new possibilities and such.

I know it's not exactly the best answer, but that's what I think.

I agree with this. I would rather buy a book which fleshes out a new and interesting world or universe than a set of rules on stats and skills. For example: Don't give me "Avatar - The Role Playing Game", give me "GURPS: Avatar." (Except, you know, not Avatar.)

Unless the new game system is truly revolutionary and reinvents the wheel, shelve it and give me a fun world instead.

Quote from: TristramEvans;894052Can you name some names?

When posting this, I was thinking of Tony Bath's Setting up a Wargames Campaign, which was brought to my attention in another thread, and which I've purchased since.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;894044I think that we have too many RPGs for our own good. Hardly any new game is original, interesting and fresh enough to sacrifice both time to learn it and energy to convince players to play it.

Well, I just say that I'm running X, and letting the players do the job of persuading themselves they need to learn the rules:p.
Some never will, not before the campaign enters its third year, and for most rulesets that's fine. Others don't need persuasion, and that's fine as well:).

Quote from: Doughdee222;894069I agree with this. I would rather buy a book which fleshes out a new and interesting world or universe than a set of rules on stats and skills. For example: Don't give me "Avatar - The Role Playing Game", give me "GURPS: Avatar." (Except, you know, not Avatar.)

Unless the new game system is truly revolutionary and reinvents the wheel, shelve it and give me a fun world instead.

Sure. I much prefer having systemless supplements, too, because I can then use them with any system I like.
But if it's coming with a system I don't like? Odds are, I'm not going to even touch it;).