Quote from: beeberif i want videogamey gaming, i'll play d&d.  the whole mechanics (xp tables, hp inflation, ever-increasing reliance on magic items, etc.) just screams vids.  which given its roots, is no surprise.

I think you got that the wrong way around.  D&D --> Computer RPGs, not CRPGs --> D&D.

-O

what i should've said is given its wargame roots, is no surprise.  it's not like d&d was formed from an exercise in community theater :rolleyes:

edit:  sorry for the snark

Quote from: obrynI think you got that the wrong way around.  D&D --> Computer RPGs, not CRPGs --> D&D.

-O

One could argue
AD&D --> Computer RPGs --> D20 D&D.

Quote from: NicephorusOne could argue
AD&D --> Computer RPGs --> D20 D&D.

I don't see much polination in the other direction.

One of D&D 3.0's big changes was adding feats.  How many video games that came out before 2000 have feats?

Most D&D-inspired games do not allow multiclassing.  In D&D it's now easier than ever to multi-class -- even before the concept of prestige classes.

Most D&D-inspired games that go the whole hog with races and classes still restrict the classes that any given race can take, like AD&D did.  D&D 3.0 did away with this restriction.

Conversely, almost every D&D-inspired video game -- except for actual licensed D&D simulations -- ditched spells-per-day in favor of mana points.  But D&D 3.0 didn't pick up on this for wizards and sorcerers.  (Although it did later appear in an add-on book for psionics.)

Those are some of the big ones -- what do you see D&D 3/3.5 as taking from video games?

The only CRPG I know of that could possibly have provided any direct inspiration to D&D3 is Fallout, but given that Fallout was designed from the ground up to be playable both as a tabletop and a computer game, that really doesn't serve as very good evidence fod D&D3 becoming too "video-game-like" or whatever.

D&D resembles CRPGs only because CRPGs by and large take only one aspect of D&D actual play, strip out the rest, and then ultra-specialize in the remaining elements.  

Which is why they are best treated as seperate things, as CRPGs at their best still only serve as a passable emulation of real tabletop play and it's capabilities.  Even games like Ryzom and NWN that seek to directly provide tools for a tabletop mode of play, still wind up being more limited in their capabilities than a real GM.

D&D resembles CRPGs, because CRPGs have spent decades ripping off the combat and level mechanics.  THat's it.

Quote from: hgjsI don't see much polination in the other direction.

You're thinking too low level.  Look at the big picture.  Computer games helped cement the idea of the big bad guy at the end of the game. The game revolves more around a top-view and making movement correspond to a grid than it used to.  Some adventures seem to be a series of scenes to beat instead of the sprawling dungeon.

All of these ideas were around in AD&D but I think video game experience shaped people's thinking and brought them more to the fore.

1. Classes
I don't think the arguments in favor of classes apply to late 3.5. Perhaps there used to be some sort of archetype thing, but now theres so many races and classes and multiclasses it doesn't really mean anything to me. For example, currently I'm playing a Cleric in a two Cleric 3.5 group. Are both clerics the same? No, totally different. So what good is it to say that we're both Clerics? We share the same base attack bonus, but my to hit is +8 and his is -1. We both have the ability to turn undead, but he just slays them outright with his empowered hightened greater turning -- I don't even try!. And so on and so forth. Even if the same person controlled both Clerics, they'd be played differently because the characters are so very different.

But I like classes for a different reason. They force more complicated design choices on the player. Instead of buying abilities ala carte, classes are package deals. It's not better or worse, but it is more complicated than making decisions on a point by point basis, and I think that added complexity is fun. (Perhaps you will too?)

2. Schlock
If you like Diablo, you like Schlock.  

3. KTATTS
I don't like slow games. I don't want to hear about all the beheading and eye-stabbing. Finding a group that's Diablo fast in combat may be what you need.

I know you're as old as dirt and all, but I'm just saying that enjoying the game of D&D combat or Diablo combat isn't helped by the same things that make for a great story or great acting. Let me remind you that the dialog to great game of Diablo is: Squash! Squash! Squash! Squash! Grunt! Squash! Grunt! Burble! Squash! BLEH! ...Ding!

I don't know if I like Diablo schlock so much as laugh at it as I kill things. I need a group with the same sense of humour. Other than that, right on!

No problems there. With the right (wrong?) group everything is funny.

Solution: You wuv D&D!

You crack me up. All right, I'll look around for a game.