Do fights in WFRP2 always take forever?

flyingmice · March 14, 2007, 09:04:57 PM

Quote from: Mcrowyeah, I guess you are right there. IME, SC2 is the one exception I have come across.

Pax Draconis could take you a whole session to complete a small combat.

Thanks, Mike! I went to a lot of effort to get the play fast, yet still somewhat tactical.

-clash

obryn · March 15, 2007, 11:45:58 AM

We played again last night, and things went WAY more smoothly. I think a combination of competency and better rolls really helped matters.

They faced down a few ghouls (one guy was reduced to 0 wounds in one hit), and then tore apart a few Skaven (including a Clan Eshin assassin).

The irony of ironies in this game is that the party's halfling is their major damage dealer. He's a Fieldwarden, and is just damned scary with his sling. The party's main melee combatants are a noble (using his foil - which actually worked pretty sweet for once last session) and an outlaw (who's got 2 attacks but tends towards the cowardly).

-O

RPGPundit · March 16, 2007, 01:26:31 AM

I would say that the game is more characterized by its unpredictability than its lengthyness. Sometimes its long, yes; sometimes its shockingly fast as someone scores an "Ulric's Fury".

RPGPundit

mhensley · March 16, 2007, 08:42:50 AM

After my last campaign, I find that I have a couple of problems with WFRP combat.

1. After just a couple of sessions looking up critical hits on a chart got boring and really slowed down combat. I would just rather make stuff up on the fly.

2. Armor dominates the system. As soon as pc's get a hold of plate all game balance goes out the window. When they have a toughness of 8 or 9 all over very few opponents can harm them. We even ran a test combat against a giant and the the group of 1st career pc's with plate kicked his ass. This may be realistic but it makes for a bad game IMO.

RPGPundit · March 16, 2007, 11:36:41 AM

Quote from: mhensleyAfter my last campaign, I find that I have a couple of problems with WFRP combat.

1. After just a couple of sessions looking up critical hits on a chart got boring and really slowed down combat. I would just rather make stuff up on the fly.

2. Armor dominates the system. As soon as pc's get a hold of plate all game balance goes out the window. When they have a toughness of 8 or 9 all over very few opponents can harm them. We even ran a test combat against a giant and the the group of 1st career pc's with plate kicked his ass. This may be realistic but it makes for a bad game IMO.

1. I disagree. Though maybe what you need are the expanded crit charts available online. Those were designed by actual doctors, and are brilliantly detailed.

2. That's why armour is made so difficult to get ahold of. Especially plate mail. Once you do have it, yes, you become very tough, but mainly the effect of that is that one good hit is not enough to kill you. However, its also the moment when the DM should start sending the more challenging monsters and opponents against you, within reason.

RPGPundit

Hastur T. Fannon · March 16, 2007, 12:01:03 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit2. That's why armour is made so difficult to get ahold of. Especially plate mail. Once you do have it, yes, you become very tough, but mainly the effect of that is that one good hit is not enough to kill you. However, its also the moment when the DM should start sending the more challenging monsters and opponents against you, within reason.

Quick question, how well does the system handle someone and his mates, tripping up your plate-armoured knight, holding him down and going stabbity-stabbity-stab with poniards?

obryn · March 16, 2007, 12:19:07 PM

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonQuick question, how well does the system handle someone and his mates, tripping up your plate-armoured knight, holding him down and going stabbity-stabbity-stab with poniards?

Well, if he can be considered helpless, you roll an extra d10 on damage for every attack... That'll punch through plate real quick.

I'm not clear enough on the rules to know if he actually would be helpless, but the combat rules are vague enough I'd allow it if you had enough people.

-O

obryn · March 16, 2007, 12:19:43 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit1. I disagree. Though maybe what you need are the expanded crit charts available online. Those were designed by actual doctors, and are brilliantly detailed.

Link?

-O

One Horse Town · March 16, 2007, 12:27:15 PM

Quote from: obrynLink?

-O

I don't have the direct link, but if you search for WFRP windsofchaos, you'll get Chuck Morrison's site which holds those charts.

Hastur T. Fannon · March 16, 2007, 12:45:19 PM

Quote from: obrynWell, if he can be considered helpless, you roll an extra d10 on damage for every attack... That'll punch through plate real quick.

I'm not clear enough on the rules to know if he actually would be helpless, but the combat rules are vague enough I'd allow it if you had enough people.

Looking good so far...

Can you bypass or reduce the effectiveness of armour if you have sufficient skill?

mhensley · March 16, 2007, 12:59:12 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit1. I disagree. Though maybe what you need are the expanded crit charts available online. Those were designed by actual doctors, and are brilliantly detailed.

That's what I was using. Yes, they are more interesting but they also require even more page flipping. In the future, I think I'll only look up crits on pc's. It just isn't worth it to do for every beastman that's only going to get killed in the next round anyway.

Quote from: RPGPundit2. That's why armour is made so difficult to get ahold of. Especially plate mail. Once you do have it, yes, you become very tough, but mainly the effect of that is that one good hit is not enough to kill you. However, its also the moment when the DM should start sending the more challenging monsters and opponents against you, within reason.

Part of that is my fault as I inserted some WFRP1 adventures into Ashes of Middenheim. Apparently 1st edition gave out way more money than 2nd does. Oops. But even without that help, any group by the end of AoM will have everyone outfitted in full plate (due to stripping the armor from the knights they fight) and they should only be early into their second career. You will have to be very miserly and careful for this not to happen.

mhensley · March 16, 2007, 01:00:09 PM

Quote from: obrynLink?

http://www.windsofchaos.com/?page_id=19

obryn · March 16, 2007, 01:24:29 PM

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonLooking good so far...

Can you bypass or reduce the effectiveness of armour if you have sufficient skill?

IIRC, you can make a called shot to a less-armored area at a penalty to your attack roll. I want to say -20%, but I'm not referencing anything at the moment to verify that. Armor is divided up among 4 zones - arms, legs, body, and head. You can have differential armor on each area.

There's no rules built into the system to bypass armor completely. Some weapons, though, do have armor piercing qualities which allow them to ignore some of armor's effectiveness.

-O

Hastur T. Fannon · March 16, 2007, 01:28:58 PM

I think I may have just found my new favourite system when something more crunchy than nWoD is required

obryn · March 16, 2007, 03:10:25 PM

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonI think I may have just found my new favourite system when something more crunchy than nWoD is required

Well, it's definitely worth a look. The combat is much grittier than d20, and a few hits against an unarmored opponent will often taken them out. Heck, 1 can, especially if it's from a Great Weapon.

I'm loving the system so far. Once you get used to it, it is quicker than d20, and a lot more fun & interactive. (More options, parry rules, etc.)

-O