I've run 2 sessions of WFRP2 so far, and love the world and love the system in general.  It's gorgeous, really.

The thing is, my players and I have noticed that fights really do take a long-ass time.

At lower power levels, there's a lower chance to-hit - say, 30%-40%.  Even if you do connect, the opponent may have the ability to block, say 30%-40% of the time.  Maybe more if they have a shield.  Let's say you do connect - still, there's a chance for you to do very little or no damage.  Sure, your opponent doesn't have many wound points, but those 9 or so can take a while.  Even after that's done, you have criticals to contend with.  Scoring a death blow is quite a lot harder than I thought it would be.

With that said, we're spending a lot less time on all the calculations and whatnot - combat goes from person to person quickly.  Still, it leaves the impression that not much is really happening each round.

Has anyone had similar experiences to this?  Any thoughts?  Does it get faster as time goes on?

-O

I don't now if it is percentile system problem in general or just WHFRP, but IME, alot of percentile systems tend to drag out combat.

We only played about 5 sessions when it first came out, but our fights never seemed to take long. I was on the player side of things, so can't don't know what the enemy's stats were, but if you've got the campaign that was out back then you could look them up.

Mcrow, try Marvel Superheroes. It's percentile, and one of the fastest systems I know. But then again, Rolemaster is also percentile and can take forever until the players master the system. I think it's system dependent, not tied to the percentile mechanic.

Yeah, it can get bogged down a bit.

Using Aim or outnumbering opponents certainly improves your chances of hitting in combat and Talents such as Strike to Injure improve your chances of delivering a deadly critical. Outside of that, there is advice on speeding up combat on page 131 of the WFRP core book.

Quote from: One Horse TownYeah, it can get bogged down a bit.

Using Aim or outnumbering opponents certainly improves your chances of hitting in combat and Talents such as Strike to Injure improve your chances of delivering a deadly critical. Outside of that, there is advice on speeding up combat on page 131 of the WFRP core book.

Well, I looked at the guidelines for speeding up combat, but honestly none of them appealed to me.  WFRP2 default combat is a good mix of abstraction & detail to me.  All of those pieces of advice would take stuff away from the experience.

I know it seems like I just want everything  At least it's not (1e) Storyteller combat, where you needed 4 dice rolls to smack someone up the head, with variable dice pools and target numbers!

-O

QuoteStill, it leaves the impression that not much is really happening each round.

Well, if you think of it, visualize it, there's quite a lot happpening, it's just that all those misses and blocks look a hell of a lot more exciting if you see them played out on, say, a film screen, for instance.

I've pondered that problem before, in thinking about simulation of modern fire combat.  Real world shootouts, whether in a combat zone or a police situation, have utterly horrible hit rates.  30% combat accuracy would be something to be proud of.  Most of the time you aren't even necessarily even trying to hit, so much as gettign the other guy afraid of being hit of he goes where you're shooting at.

But in a game, that's bloody boring.  Nobody wants to play out a half an hour combat spending most of the time missing.  I mean to be honest, anything less than a 50-60% is mostly just going to be frustrating as hell, at least for me.  Maybe 40% is alright.

But that's sort of the problem with a percentile system.  To make for less frustrating results, you have to ignore a pretty decent chunk of the spectrum, or at least ensure the players meet that minimum level of cometency.  

So it goes I guess, but it's interesting.

Quote from: James McMurrayMcrow, try Marvel Superheroes. It's percentile, and one of the fastest systems I know. But then again, Rolemaster is also percentile and can take forever until the players master the system. I think it's system dependent, not tied to the percentile mechanic.

I have played a bunch of percentile games, but Marvel Supers is not one of them.

Heretic!

No really, give it a shot. The price is right.

Quote from: McrowI don't now if it is percentile system problem in general or just WHFRP, but IME, alot of percentile systems tend to drag out combat.

Hi Mike:

The StarCluster system games are percentile and pretty fast in play.

-clash

I ran a short WFRP 2E campaign this summer, and IMHO combat didn't take that long. Clever use of Talents and combat options (all-out attack and outnumbering your opponent) are the key to victory.

Quote from: JongWKI ran a short WFRP 2E campaign this summer, and IMHO combat didn't take that long. Clever use of Talents and combat options (all-out attack and outnumbering your opponent) are the key to victory.

Yeah, I think the outnumbering rules will be pointed out a bit more.  +10% is a pretty hefty bonus...  +20% for massive outnumbering is even better.

My players used all-out attack last session.  Maybe it was bad dice rolls, but it didn't much help.

-O

Quote from: flyingmiceHi Mike:

The StarCluster system games are percentile and pretty fast in play.

-clash

yeah, I guess you are right there.  IME, SC2 is the one exception I have come across.

Pax Draconis could take you a whole session to complete a small combat.

WFRP2 is surprisingly tactical in combat. If you just stand there and swing man-to-man, it takes forever to kill someone. If you want to speed up combat, enecourage people to gang up on opponents, ambush them, and attack them from behind, or at range. Squalid, unfair fights are classic Warhammer after all.

It seems slow right up to the point you start rolling on the critical hit tables, then it goes surprisingly fast.

It started slow in my campaign right up until I gave everybody cheatsheets for their options and used the same for the NPC's. One character lost two limbs in 4 sessions though.