No, but on the other hand, I don't think there should be "standard issue" magic items.

I think there are three different "good" ways to handle things:

1. Magic items are relatively common (just how common can vary by the campaign), and most of them are low-powered and generic.  Rare "special" magic items are a major find, therefore.

2. Magic items are relatively rare (just how rare can vary by the campaign); off the few they are, gaining even a low-powered magic item is a significant find; and obtaining a "special" magic item with additional powers is a huge deal.

3. Magic items are incredibly rare; finding any magic item at all will be an amazing thing, and therefore said item even if it is very low-powered by baseline D&D standard will be a significant item with a name and history.

The "bad" ways to do it would be where magic items are common as dirt and special items are pretty much likewise; or where magic items are relatively common and they're all special items.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;644541The "bad" ways to do it would be where magic items are common as dirt and special items are pretty much likewise; or where magic items are relatively common and they're all special items.

RPGPundit

If everybody's special, nobody is, to summarise.

Quote from: Rincewind1;644543If everybody's special, nobody is, to summarise.

Its oft said because its true.

RPGPundit

And if nobody's special, nobody's special.

If those are the only options, I'll take 'everyone's special' every time.

Quote from: RPGPundit;644541I think there are three different "good" ways to handle things:

1. Magic items are relatively common (just how common can vary by the campaign), and most of them are low-powered and generic.  Rare "special" magic items are a major find, therefore.

2. Magic items are relatively rare (just how rare can vary by the campaign); off the few they are, gaining even a low-powered magic item is a significant find; and obtaining a "special" magic item with additional powers is a huge deal.

3. Magic items are incredibly rare; finding any magic item at all will be an amazing thing, and therefore said item even if it is very low-powered by baseline D&D standard will be a significant item with a name and history.

The "bad" ways to do it would be where magic items are common as dirt and special items are pretty much likewise; or where magic items are relatively common and they're all special items.

RPGPundit

Don't forget the other option which is one of my favourites, low level magical items aren't magical at all, just of very high quality or the products of weird natural phenomena, and reasonably common yet valuable. It doesn't take away from the sense of wonder at all, rather adds to it I find, and sits a little more easily in the game world since you don't need magic factories. Real magic could be a lot less common.

Quote from: The Traveller;644983Don't forget the other option which is one of my favourites, low level magical items aren't magical at all, just of very high quality or the products of weird natural phenomena, and reasonably common yet valuable. It doesn't take away from the sense of wonder at all, rather adds to it I find, and sits a little more easily in the game world since you don't need magic factories. Real magic could be a lot less common.

Quoted for truth.

I don't really give a fuck if magical items are perceived to be "special."  I just like permanent-type items to have some sort of history, which affects what they can do and how they might be used.  But really it's the character that's made special by the item, not the item itself, which is a tool.

My players usually don't probe much beyond figuring out what the doo-dad will do, anyway, unless the history is of special interest to their character or important to whatever goal they're pursuing.  The histories are a rationalization of powers and world building feature.  I suspect most people would be the same way if they were in the same situation.

Why do magical items have to be any more special than finding a cache of AK-47s?  That's what a lot of them amount to in the end, anyway.

In a game where everyone is equipped with AK-47s, finding a cache is 'ho-hum' boring.  Now, in a game where everyone is using revolvers or muskets, finding an AK-47 is an appreciably bigger deal.  

Magical items deserve a little more 'wonder' - it makes the game more enjoyable, in my opinion.  

If magic items are rare, tend to last a long time (ie are permanent), and new items are created rarely or not at all, it stands to reason that any magical item found will have a history - just like an AK-47 recovered from Sadam's Palace.  How it got where it was; how it was used prior to finding by the party, etc are all interesting questions.  They might not come up during the game, but sparing a thought for them is worthwhile.

For example, the magical shortsword you find has a notch along the blade.  The players might wonder about that, but won't think it's important.  But the DM can think about it.

Later, a bard might tell the legend of Gatahgar the Ancient, a dragon who was functionally immortal, and had been blessed with total immunity to a weapon wielding by mortal hand.  The young hero Fenis went forth to fight the dragon anyways, holding in his hand a shortsword.  When the dragon attacked, he deflected the bite with the sword.  The blow knocked a shard from the blade, into the dragon's brain, instantly slaying him - it was the dragon's own action that killed him..  Now, the players might think that's pretty cool.  And suddenly they have to wonder about that dragon's hoard...

Quote from: deadDMwalking;645035In a game where everyone is equipped with AK-47s, finding a cache is 'ho-hum' boring.  Now, in a game where everyone is using revolvers or muskets, finding an AK-47 is an appreciably bigger deal.  

The cache of AK-47s example would be more like finding it in the course of your real life.  Sure, it's pretty awesome and quite the force multiplier, but still...tools, right?  The guns aren't special.  The people who have them are.

I pretty much nodded yes to most of the rest of your post.

I think the answer to this question largely depends on how you treat magic.

If anybody able to read or wave their arms around can pick up the rudimentary parts of magic - basically, if anybody can learn to cast spells - then magic weapons aren't that special. Enchanting is just an extension of a system of magic, so if your magic system makes magic ubiquitous, then magic items will be, as well.

The rarer, stranger, or more difficult magic in your setting is, the rarity and "unique-ness" of magic weapons should correlate to that. If magic is a pain in the ass to learn, with the PCs rarely ever coming across NPC mages, then ideally every magic item should have its own history and be unique in some fashion.

These two answers then lead to a sliding scale between the two extremes.

See for me its like this:

Regular Gear
Really Good Gear (+1 at most)
Magical Gear with story.


Now the last category, I found, works best when it IS special and rare. So I don't hand out a lot of magic items in D&D, at least not that are special. The difference is a potion, a scroll, an enchanted (+2) helmet, are cool and all, but have no story. Now the Helmet+the full armor has a story, and it will make an awesome +5 suit of armor when all the pieces are together.

Another thing that can increase specialness is not making everything a weapon or incredibly obvious tool (potion, item that casts light, etc.).

How about a jewel that emits a tune when exposed to direct sunlight?  How about a teacup that keeps its contents constantly warm?  The history of these may be interesting, but for the players to figure out what to do with them could be an even more interesting story.

Could they just sell them?  I suppose, but that's pretty boring.

Could they be presented as gifts to gain influence with a noble?  Once they've passed out of the players' hands, do they just vanish from the story, or do they still have relevance?  Maybe the musical jewel gets stolen.  Maybe the teacup stirs up jealousy in a rival lord, and he has the players followed to see what else they may find.

I think it's less the items themselves than style of play around them.



Another thing that I find annoying is that magic items generally seem to be nearly indestructible and are thus perfect.  Why can't it be dirty?  Or rusty?  Or with a piece missing?  Why can't it wear out or break?  Frankly, nullifying any of those issues is a useful an valued enchantment on its own (e.g. a sword that never dulls), never mind a standard +X.


This is all harder to make relevant if your world is magic heavy and adventures are combat focused.

Not every item had to be unique but investing creativity in this area usually pays good dividends.

Quote from: KenHR;645030I don't really give a fuck if magical items are perceived to be "special."  I just like permanent-type items to have some sort of history, which affects what they can do and how they might be used.  But really it's the character that's made special by the item, not the item itself, which is a tool.

My players usually don't probe much beyond figuring out what the doo-dad will do, anyway, unless the history is of special interest to their character or important to whatever goal they're pursuing.  The histories are a rationalization of powers and world building feature.  I suspect most people would be the same way if they were in the same situation.

Why do magical items have to be any more special than finding a cache of AK-47s?  That's what a lot of them amount to in the end, anyway.

Quote from: KenHR;645036The cache of AK-47s example would be more like finding it in the course of your real life.  Sure, it's pretty awesome and quite the force multiplier, but still...tools, right?  The guns aren't special.  The people who have them are.

I pretty much nodded yes to most of the rest of your post.

See, part of the problem is, that sometimes a tool isn't just a tool - it's all in the symbolism. The discussion in this thread in particular is between a division between magic items that are just tools for combat, indeed, and magic items that are much more, not because just they are magic items, but because they have an important history behind them. Of course, those items were usually made on a specific location, the story made up, and ever so often, they were Ship of Theseus paradox.

Some tools are more than tools, because of the history, that is made up or not, behind them. And I am talking real world examples here. The ceremonial sword of Polish Kings, Szczerbiec (Notched Blade) used for coronations since Władysław the Short, a king that united a fallen - apart state, was supposedly a sword that the first king of Poland, Bolesław the Brave, notched on the gates of Kiev, during it's conquest. Of course, from what we have learned, the blade was actually smithed for coronation of Władysław, but that was kind of it's magic -  the blade spoke of an old triumph against a potent foe, bringing promise of new, glorious wars, but it was also a reminder of the continuation of monarchy, which, back in the days, meant stability of the state (the bloodiest civil wars of the time were wars of succession). So, supposedly, any man crowned with using that sword, was sharing the legacy of the first king of Poland. A similar thing was in regard  to the throne, which was probably repaired a few times - and therefore, during partitions of Poland, both the sword and throne was taken (the throne infamously converted to a loo by Catherine the Second).

And it was not just Poland, so to speak - the Scottish kings were crowned on the famous Stone of Scone, which was claimed by Edward the First as clear signal that Scotland is now subject to the English Crown - and it was placed nowhere else but Westminster Abbey, a place of coronation of kings of England. There was a rather famous incident in 1950, when Scottish nationalists stole the stone from the Abbey, and after it was returned, the Scone was supposedly given back in the 90s to Scotland. We may of course jest, but the power of symbolism is very, very strong. There was also the whole deal with crowns and coronation jewels - sending them to another King/Emperor was a clear sign of submitting yourself to his rule, and I'd wager that Cromwell melting down the jewels of England wasn't just looking for coin neither, but also trying to further symbolically break the monarchy.

And of course, there are also Damascus steel blades, which were the "magical items" of the day, and if a family was rich enough to buy one, it did usually pass from father to son, if possible, until it broke, if only as a sign of richness. Similar with other items, really - I have read a rather fabulous story of some form of Scottish clan blanket/tapestry, that said clan's son had in his WW2 airplane to give him luck. And one can bet that a sufficiently historical item was certainly thought to have mythical powers - hells, there were myths that touch of a king would cure you of disease (and it was even as late as XVII century that this myth was still alive - Charles the First was supposedly quite fond of it).

So, what's the point of my babbling? When a character picks up a "special" magical item, he's not just picking up a hammer of Better Slaying of Goblins, to use a notion from Warhammer - he is/ought to pick up a piece of history of the world, something that has a deep rooted symbolism for various people within it, and may lead to various people interacting with him in a completely different way - and not necessarily a good one. Heck, in a way, the history of the weapon may be more important that any properties of the blade itself - an Excalibur may be just a well - made sword, a Masterwork one to speak in DnD's terms, but having it would still brand one as true king of all Britons.