Quote from: malleus arianorumChildren project their worldview onto everything they invent, but adults have the ability to narrate against their own biases -- often to avoid getting harried by players who see the bias inherent in the system. [/duh]

But what's interesting is using an RPG to further an agenda.  Over at the other place, there was a debate about D&D Paladins slaughtering Orc babies. One of the interesting points was that in the Monster Manual, Orcs have changed from Chaotic Evil to Ususaly Chaotic Evil AND there's a blurb about how many women and infants are found in the nest.  So now the dilemma is hardcoded into the game.

That is a really good example.
And how the players react betrays their own agendas. The arguements we see online wouldn't be present if there wern't conflicting agendas in the game brought about by hazy consensus in the rules.

Quote from: malleus arianorumChildren project their worldview onto everything they invent, but adults have the ability to narrate against their own biases -- often to avoid getting harried by players who see the bias inherent in the system. [/duh]

I would only change this by saying that Children can only project their worldview onto everything they invent, whereas adults can both project their worldview and create against their own bias. And that just because they can, the don't often seem to do so in every day life.

Quote from: malleus arianorumBut what's interesting is using an RPG to further an agenda.  Over at the other place, there was a debate about D&D Paladins slaughtering Orc babies. One of the interesting points was that in the Monster Manual, Orcs have changed from Chaotic Evil to Ususaly Chaotic Evil AND there's a blurb about how many women and infants are found in the nest.  So now the dilemma is hardcoded into the game.

I think only because you had to explain all the spiked-chain-wielding-half-orc-barbarians running around :haw:

I'd disagree... children don't have much in the way of a worldview. They're still in the process of making one up out of whatever they see.

My son turned six this year.  He's going through this phase where everything cool is done by boys. Music, sports, stories - if he thinks it's cool, it was done by a boy.  That's his worldview.

And no matter how many times my wife and I explain that to him, he's still having trouble with the concept that cool things are also made by girls who are smart, tough, and creative just like boys. But he can't help himself.

I blame the public schools

Quote from: James J SkachMy son turned six this year.  He's going through this phase where everything cool is done by boys. Music, sports, stories - if he thinks it's cool, it was done by a boy.  That's his worldview.

And no matter how many times my wife and I explain that to him, he's still having trouble with the concept that cool things are also made by girls who are smart, tough, and creative just like boys. But he can't help himself.

I blame the public schools

Well... uh... you could always scare the crap out of him by introducing him to Ayn Rand. Seriously, I still have nightmares...

Quote from: beejazzWell... uh... you could always scare the crap out of him by introducing him to Ayn Rand. Seriously, I still have nightmares...

 I LOVE Ayn Rand - she was such a fun read.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarI LOVE Ayn Rand - she was such a fun read.

Sure, when you were 19.

!i!

Quote from: KoltarI LOVE Ayn Rand - she was such a fun read.

She was great in bed too.

Quote from: HalfjackShe was great in bed too.

 You too!! ?? Damn !!
 Considering her age and year of death - she sure got around.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSure, when you were 19.

!i!

I were until September.

Quote from: James J SkachMy son turned six this year.  He's going through this phase where everything cool is done by boys. Music, sports, stories - if he thinks it's cool, it was done by a boy.  That's his worldview.

And no matter how many times my wife and I explain that to him, he's still having trouble with the concept that cool things are also made by girls who are smart, tough, and creative just like boys. But he can't help himself.

I blame the public schools

Heh. The reason that the Harry Potter books have the name 'J. K. Rowling' on them is because the publisher was afraid that boys wouldn't read a book written by a girl. Now if I were to create a product to cater to young boys, I would want to make sure I conceal any feminine involvement.

Does that mean I have an agenda beyond making a profit? Lots of people would certainly assume so. And many people would be asking why (what appears to be) an unmarried man is making products targeting young children in the first place.

And while you may jestingly blame the public schools, there are people in all seriousness who blame the parents for this, and accuse them of having some kind of sexist or sociological agenda (often because they themselves do). After all, there's got to be a reason that a 6 year old boy thinks cool stuff is only made by boys besides...well...the fact that he's a 6 YEAR OLD BOY.

Speaking of boys, Andrew Klavan (author of Damnation Street and other novels) had a great interview where he touched on what boys like and why.
   WORLD: And what about literature professors? Damnation Street has a great riff on academic novels; it concludes, "there were all the usual passages where the languid acerbic eloquence suddenly gives way to a more heartfelt but still acceptably ironic eloquence with which the professor affirms the beauty of this meaningless spark of a meaningless flame that was the life of the imagined soul in the accidental universe, which was really only the novel he was writing, which was this novel, which was this universe and so on." Why do reviewers tend to praise such stuff?

KLAVAN: Because it's like dropping into a warm bath for them. It confirms all their otherwise indefensible ideas. Whenever you hear a reviewer call a novel "Shocking!" or "Disturbing!" or "Radical!" they don't mean it's shocking or disturbing or radical to them! They mean it's going to shock or disturb some conservative evangelical they've invented in their own minds. What it really does is stroke their egos, tell them how wise they are, how perfectly their silly theories reflect life and plumb the depths of art. Something that actually shocked or disturbed them—well, take The Passion of the Christ, for instance—not my favorite movie for purely cinematic reasons—but that really shocked them, and you saw the ugly result.

WORLD: Does the dominance of literary fiction among teachers hurt educational efforts as well? The San Diego Union Tribune in 2004 quoted you as saying, "They tell me you can't get boys to read. But what are they giving them to read? I wanted to bring back hard guys." Do you find middle-school and high-school kids reading your books? What's their reaction?

KLAVAN: Well, of course it hurts education; of course it does. Kids are the first to know when you're lying to them with some politically correct malarky. They may not have the courage or the confidence to oppose it. But they'll just turn away, go somewhere else, play video games where men fight dragons and don't have to be so sensitive and girly. As for their reactions to my work, it's hard to say because the kids who write to me tend to be fans. Whether other kids are reading me and hate me, I don't know. What I hear is always very flattering.
When I read this the scales fell from my eyes. Of course boys prefer cool stuff to politically correct tripe. We wouldn't have survived as a species if it were any other way. Taken in this light, boys with play swords are not the defeat of culture but a triumph of authentic humanity over social programming.

There was some fairly vocal debate in the UK recently about allowing kids (boys in particular) greater exposure to risk as they mature. Current thinking tries to protect youngsters whilst at school and at home-- don't climb that tree, don't play with fake weapons, don't overdo the hard contact sports. It's been argued that thus has resulted in a thoroughly skewed perspective regarding personal threat, ranging from quaking cowardice to an innate sense of unpierced invulnerability.

Of course kids are drawn to fictional violence, it's their way of vicariously experiencing conflict and threat without getting their limbs chopped off.

Quote from: malleus arianorumI am man, hear me ROAR.

:rolleyes:

I did not write that. What do you mean?