So I decided to go look for some videos myself, and found a few interesting ones.

This one, for instance.  Starting at 0:54, it shows bits from two different competitions.  The guy throwing at three targets, and then the folks throwing at five (clips from this one recurs throughout), they're tossing with a fair bit of force, and I'd hate to be on the business end of those tomahawks.  The range throughout doesn't get more than about 20', except at the very end of the video, where a guy's scoring hits at around 25'.

This one is an extended (12m) clip of the European Championships.  The first half shows a bunch of people throwing hard and fast (3 hatchets per man), with no arc, and getting good penetration ... at a distance of about 15'.  The second pushes them about 12' further back, and they're getting fair penetration, with needing to line up individual shots a good bit more slowly.  You can see a bit of an arc in the shots, but certainly not enough to make even a low ceiling an issue.

Quote from: Pyromancer;855381If the game uses maps and minis, I want precise ranges. If the game doesn't use maps and minis, I prefer abstract measurements.

My opinion as well.

Quote from: Ravenswing;857726This one is an extended (12m) clip of the European Championships.  The first half shows a bunch of people throwing hard and fast (3 hatchets per man), with no arc, and getting good penetration ... at a distance of about 15'.  The second pushes them about 12' further back, and they're getting fair penetration, with needing to line up individual shots a good bit more slowly.  You can see a bit of an arc in the shots, but certainly not enough to make even a low ceiling an issue.

The guy smoking a pipe while throwing....
Hard and fast, too funny:rolleyes:

Quote from: JoeNuttall;857456I doubt it! Axes are sufficiently weighty that they won't be slowed down that much by air resistance and they're being thrown pretty hard to go that distance.

You'd be wrong.  Air resistance is pretty strong, and it DOES slow down even an axe.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;857823You'd be wrong.  Air resistance is pretty strong, and it DOES slow down even an axe.

Can you cite a reference?

Quote from: JoeNuttall;857859Can you cite a reference?

Science.  Namely physics.  There's a reason that bullets have a range, and the average .9mm bullet fires out at 35,000 pounds per square inch of force, which also fires at multiple MACH speeds, but even the best range is about a hundred yards out.  And it's not just gravity that stops a round from keep going.

A throwing axe simply doesn't have the power to keep pushing it through the air.

And if you still can't believe that, I can't help you.  Because this would require a lot of science to explain.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;857861And if you still can't believe that, I can't help you.  Because this would require a lot of science to explain.

I understand the maths of air resistance and have done a lot of simulations of the effect of air resistance on projectiles. Yes, air resistance does have a big effect on bullets and arrows.

Sure.  However air resistance compared to gravity and force used to throw the axe is so minor as to be nil.

Quote from: Sommerjon;857900Sure.  However air resistance compared to gravity and force used to throw the axe is so minor as to be nil.

No it's not. Even at the speed of a thrown weapon, it's quite significant. Air resistance is proportional to speed. Try sticking your hand out the window of a car moving at 50-60 mph, to get a feel.

Quote from: Skarg;857994No it's not. Even at the speed of a thrown weapon, it's quite significant. Air resistance is proportional to speed. Try sticking your hand out the window of a car moving at 50-60 mph, to get a feel.

No it's not.

Quote from: Skarg;857994Air resistance is proportional to speed.

Point of order:  Drag is proportional to velocity squared.  Double the speed and you get quadruple the air resistance.

Quote from: JoeNuttall;857862I understand the maths of air resistance and have done a lot of simulations of the effect of air resistance on projectiles. Yes, air resistance does have a big effect on bullets and arrows.

... but you imply that you don't think it does on AXES?

Quote from: JoeNuttall;857456Axes are sufficiently weighty that they won't be slowed down that much by air.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;857823You'd be wrong.  Air resistance is pretty strong, and it DOES slow down even an axe.

Quote from: JoeNuttall;857859Can you cite a reference?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;857861Science.  Namely physics.  There's a reason that bullets have a range, and the average .9mm bullet fires out at 35,000 pounds per square inch of force, which also fires at multiple MACH speeds, but even the best range is about a hundred yards out.  And it's not just gravity that stops a round from keep going.
A throwing axe simply doesn't have the power to keep pushing it through the air.
And if you still can't believe that, I can't help you.  Because this would require a lot of science to explain.

Using the formulas for drag we consider a 9mm bullet with Drag Coefficient (Cd) = 0.295, mass 7.5g, mass density air (Rho) = 1.2, initial velocity 1250fps = 381m/s. The initial drag is thus Fd = Rho*u*u*A*Cd/2 = 1.2*381*381*0.0045*0.0045*PI*0.295/2 = 1.634N. Thus initial deceleration is 1.634/0.0075 = 218 m/s/s, which is extremely large compared to the velocity.

In contrast a Francisca axe weighs approx 600g, is thrown at 15.5m/s (for max range about 80ft). The drag coefficient has to be estimated: when it's vertical is like a cylinder so Cd=1, the shaft about 45cm long, 2cm wide, so its area = 0.02m*0.45m, this would give initial drag Fd = 1.2*15.5*15.5*0.02*0.45*1/2 = 1.30 N. When it is end on the drag coefficient would be as a flat surface so 2, the area a triangle 3cm wide and 15cm long so approx 0.03*0.15/2. So Fd = 1.3*15.5*15.5*0.03*0.15/2*2/2=0.70N. So the average when spinning in flight would initially be approx 1.00N. Thus initial deceleration is only approx 1.00/0.6 = 1.66m/s/s, much smaller proportionally than with the bullet – about 20% as much.

You can't easily calculate how much velocity is lost over 80ft, but a projectile simulation shows it to be around 10%.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE mathematics for calculating distances. However, one factor these discussions rarely take under account is how distances and accuracy work while under duress of combat.

Keep the discussion ongoing! This is very helpful for development of ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG.

Relevant article:
http://www.knifethrowing.info/physics_of_knife_throwing.html

1.66 m/s/s
---------------    !=    nil
9.8 m/s/s