Depends on the technology levels (and magic as well).

Dinosaurs are a lot less of a problem when you have guys with modern heavy-game rifles (.577 T-Rex says hello!). Yes, they are big and dangerous and possibly predatory, but nothing cramps that quite like firearms.

Similarly, there's a reason dinos in D&D and PF don't clock above more than midrange in the challenge ratings. They just don't have many options against a party that isn't eating paint chips in their spare time. Unless they get amazingly lucky, chances are good the fighter will have new dino-hide boots after the encounter.

I can't say that I see the appeal of dinosaurs in a fantasy campaign, outside of a direct homage to pulp "lost world" type settings.  If I'm going for "humanity deals with fantastic creatures" I'll always pick something else that's more fantastical instead of long gone biological. 

But then, I've never seen the appeal, unlike apparently about half the population around me, that goes gaga over dinosaurs like Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes).

I also remembered last night that Hannibal (from West African Carthage) invaded Rome with War Elephants.  Definitely from Africa.

So that's another bigger than cow Megafauna that was "domesticated."  (Yeah, looking in your direction Headless).


IMHO having Dinosaurs running around your fantasy role playing campaign is just as broken as having dragons flying around your D&D world.

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 14, 2022, 10:52:37 AM
I also remembered last night that Hannibal (from West African Carthage) invaded Rome with War Elephants.  Definitely from Africa.

So that's another bigger than cow Megafauna that was "domesticated."  (Yeah, looking in your direction Headless).


IMHO having Dinosaurs running around your fantasy role playing campaign is just as broken as having dragons flying around your D&D world.

I used Dinosaurs in my GURPS "The Lost World" campaign. It was set in the 1920's and had dinos, jungles, volcanoes, the tribe of "leopard men", crumbling Mayan pyramids and all that stuff. No one wondered about the dinos: they were obviously part of the setting.

Which brings me to D&D BECMI and The Hollow World setting, where dinos as part of the setting are flatly introduced in the basic box. According to the text, in the Hollow World you can find thousand of dinosaur species. While some classics (Allosaurus, Triceratops...) are statted, the GM is literally allowed to "make things up and create (or adapt) his own dinos. And of course you have dino-riding orcs right out of the gate.

Greetings!

Indeed, in my experience, most people *love* dinosaurs. Certainly as fantastic, fierce, monstrous opponents, but also are typically wowed and overjoyed when encountering dinosaurs as some kind of food, or in a friendly, domesticated framework, such as a pet, mount, work animal, or war beast. Such situations and circumstances never fail to light up their imaginations and sense of wonder and curiosity.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

People love dinosaurs.  I have several books on the subject, and many figures to scale; and I think they make a wonderful addition to a D&D type setting.  They make good food for Dragons, too.

Dinotopia nostalgia

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on July 14, 2022, 09:46:36 AM
I can't say that I see the appeal of dinosaurs in a fantasy campaign, outside of a direct homage to pulp "lost world" type settings.  If I'm going for "humanity deals with fantastic creatures" I'll always pick something else that's more fantastical instead of long gone biological. 

But then, I've never seen the appeal, unlike apparently about half the population around me, that goes gaga over dinosaurs like Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes).

To me, dinosaurs seem more like "humanity deals with ancient creatures." I think lots of people are drawn to "fantasy" as a way of exploring ancient mysteries lost to time, not just for the whimsical magic bits. It is perhaps why "modern fantasy" or "urban fantasy" seem like distant cousins at best.

Quote from: Zalman on July 15, 2022, 08:13:09 AM

To me, dinosaurs seem more like "humanity deals with ancient creatures." I think lots of people are drawn to "fantasy" as a way of exploring ancient mysteries lost to time, not just for the whimsical magic bits. It is perhaps why "modern fantasy" or "urban fantasy" seem like distant cousins at best.

Very true.  People like opera and rap, too.  Lot's of them.  I don't deny it even as I cannot fully grasp the appeal.

Dinosaurs are best when mixed with the other three biggies of my 80s childhood: robots, ninjas, and pirates. Get all four in one setting and I'm almost certain to give it a look.

To me the most fascinating things about dinosaurs is that they were real. I can see how that are beloved by children: they are a fantasy concept that really existed in times so past that they could be another dimension.

The point, IMHO, is that bringing back dinosaurs in a different setting diminishes them, as their age of the World is part of the fascination. The Lost World, D&D and the Jurassic Park don't really work as "dinotopias" because you take something out of its context and hope that it will work anyway ("Jurassic Park", both the book and the first movie, are great exactly because they show how the idea is inherently bound to fail).

The very first story I wrote, when I still was in high school, was about a trio of scientist who went back in time to visit the Cretaceous period. After filling a couple of notebooks I abandoned it because it had no plot: the characters wandered around describing things and that's was all. I wanted to travel back in the past and see those jungles, and prairies, and oceans, but the result was a travelogue (copied from books, so, futile).

I think that the best "dinos" portrayal remains the dinosaurs episode in "Fantasia". It is still an arresting piece of animation and, boy, you really travel back in time.

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2022, 11:45:30 AM
How would having various breeds of Dinosaurs running around in the campaign world effect human society and culture?

Depends on how long dinos have been around people.

A few years?  "Holy shit!  Look at the size of that thing!  What do we do?!?!  What do we do?!?!"
Centuries?  "Well, I'm taking the ankylosaur herd to market.  Been a rough year, what with feed prices going up."

Quote from: SHARK on July 12, 2022, 11:45:30 AMAssuming also that perhaps some kinds of Dinosaurs could be domesticated. Such an impact could be pretty interesting!

The problem is familiarity breeds contempt.  If you go with classic emaciated giant reptiles, I suspect most gamers will approach them the same as cows and horses and bears and wolves.  Not that you can't tell neat stories about bronto rustlers or being out in wilderness and hunted by a pack of raptors, but I'm just telling stories about cows and wolves in different costumes at that point.

Exalted (I know, I know) had dinosaurs, most famously their beasts of resplendent fluids or whatever they were called.  Basically they were bio-factories that ate poppies and peed heroin.  It's silly and goofy and also the basis for globalized narcotics and slavery in the setting.  Point being: I think there's a place for dinosaurs, but pretty much whatever is done with them is going to come across at least a little campy at this point.

QuoteBut when a pack of Velociraptors DO show up, a tiny unprepared human civilization is going to take heavy losses.

No. Not really.
Primo, Velociraptor itself was... small and probably solitary being. Sure it's claw is kinda nasty, but let's be clear - in mano a mano combat in 99% adult man would beat raptor to death.
Deinonychus is more equal challenger - but even then there is a chance.
Secondo, even then - dromeosaurids were primitive secondary flightless birds generally speaking. They did not hunt in packs as more sophisticated evidence suggest. But they could like sometimes crocodiles or Comodo dragons - attack same target opportunistically. But no true pack hunting like wolves, or lions or chimpanzees. Their brains are simply not good enough for it.

So yeah Deinonychus would be like crocodile or comodo dragon - dangerous if you met one in wilderness, but also perfectly capable to be hunted by smart men.

QuoteDinosaurs are a lot less of a problem when you have guys with modern heavy-game rifles (.577 T-Rex says hello!). Yes, they are big and dangerous and possibly predatory, but nothing cramps that quite like firearms.

I mean even paleolithic javelin launcher would scever them severly.

QuoteI also remembered last night that Hannibal (from West African Carthage) invaded Rome with War Elephants.  Definitely from Africa.

So that's another bigger than cow Megafauna that was "domesticated."  (Yeah, looking in your direction Headless).

Tamed do not equal domesticated.

Quote from: Wrath of God on July 18, 2022, 06:04:20 PM
No. Not really.
Primo, Velociraptor itself was... small and probably solitary being. Sure it's claw is kinda nasty, but let's be clear - in mano a mano combat in 99% adult man would beat raptor to death.
Deinonychus is more equal challenger - but even then there is a chance.

I think its important to mention that Jurassic Park was full of crap. The raptors were the size of Deinonychus.

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 15, 2022, 10:27:44 AM
Dinosaurs are best when mixed with the other three biggies of my 80s childhood: robots, ninjas, and pirates. Get all four in one setting and I'm almost certain to give it a look.

In the original write-up for Imperial Knights in White Dwarf 126, the Imperial Knights were inspired by Eldar Exodite Knights that were created to herd giant dinosaurs called Megasaurs. The Knight's shock lance was a weapon designed to "affect the dull nervous system of the Megasaurs." So this setting had a medieval aesthetic, noble knights piloting giant robots, herds of dinosaurs being fought over (and predator dinosaurs to protect them from), and Eldar Exodites which were the nearest equivalent to pirates in the setting. The only thing missing is ninjas but that can be easily filled by Aspect Warriors.

Close enough?