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Different Games, Different GMs

Started by Blackleaf, February 24, 2007, 10:04:37 PM

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Blackleaf

Here's a very interesting article from Treasure Tables on How Different RPGs Define the GM's role.

97 different RPGs are included, with quotes from the books explaining the role of the GM.  If, like me, you don't own all (or most) of these games -- but you hear people talking about them -- this is enlightening.

From Advanced Dungeons & Dragons - Players Handbook, 1st Edition) (TSR, 1978)

The game is ideally for three or more adult players: one player must serve as the Dungeon Master, the shaper of the fantasy milieu, the "world" in which all action will take place. [...] A good Dungeon Master will most certainly make each game a surpassing challenge for his or her players. [...] The Dungeon Master must design and map out the dungeon, town, city, and world maps. He or she must populate the whole world, create its past history, and even devise some rationale for what transpired (and will probably happen). (Pages 7 & 8 of 128)


to  World of Synnibar - Core book, 2nd Edition (Wonderworld Press, 1993)

As Fate is the unseen controller of all destinies in the Centiverse, his or her control is absolute and all decisions are final. [...] During the game, as Fate, you may use any reference material within this book. Other players may not unless they have your permission... [...] Fate has absolute control during the game regarding rolls and interpretation of the rules. Fate may not, however, deviate from the rules as they are written, for if he or she does and the players find out, then the adventure can be declared null, and the characters must be restored to their original condition... (Page 332 of 477)

fonkaygarry

The entry for the old V:tM is actually pretty good.

The entry for Sorcerer is less so, however.  If i don't have a dramatic narrative goal, why play?  Perhaps to divert my attention from existential horror?  To bilk naive friends into feeding me while I roll dice and pretend to know what the fuck I'm doing?  To have fun?

But, shit, that game's six years old.  Dead and gone like Babylon.

WFRP 2nd's description is for the new generation, yo.  Word is...  Word?

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C.W.Richeson

I find the way Synnibar defines it to be utterly fascinating, thanks for posting it!
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droog

Quote from: fonkaygarryThe entry for Sorcerer is less so, however.  If i don't have a dramatic narrative goal, why play?  Perhaps to divert my attention from existential horror?  To bilk naive friends into feeding me while I roll dice and pretend to know what the fuck I'm doing?  To have fun?
I think you're misinterpreting a bit. The question is: why play Sorcerer? Not: why play RPGs at all?
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blakkie

Quote from: C.W.RichesonI find the way Synnibar defines it to be utterly fascinating, thanks for posting it!
I really can't wrap my mind around declaring an entire adventure "null" and rolling back a character like a whole swath of things never happend. I really don't trust my mind to unremember or remember undos to anywhere near that point.

That and the whole premise of being above the rules unless the players catch you seems completely pathological.

RE: Burning Wheel. I do agree about it being a bit wierd having "Playing The Game" with a complete listing of GM (and player) responsibilities in an Appendix, without [as far as I know] a reference to that Appendix from say the very abreviated explaination of the GM role on the second page of the first chapter. Unfortunately that Appendix on the whole refers to a lot of terms that aren't explained till well into the book, and the Role of the GM and Role of the Player really fits in well with the rest of the Appendix. A real chicken and egg problem. *shrug*
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RPGPundit

For me, the definition included in Amber pretty much describes what I do to a tee. No surprise there:

This is the person who controls the "world" and runs the game. All the non-player characters (NPCs), including guards, innocents, and villains are controlled by the GM. The GMs [sic] control even extends to things like weather, cross-universe politics and natural disasters.

But its interesting, seeing the difference, between 1st Edition Warhammer's description and the 2nd editions:

1st:
To decide what the players can or cannot do, whether they succeed or whether they fail in any action, there is the gamesmaster (GM). The GM controls the world in which the players' characters live; he is the final arbiter whose word cannot be disobeyed. [...] The GM will use these rules to present a balanced setting in which the fictional characters can adventure. He will make the adventure seem real. But the rules are only guidelines, and when the GM feels he has to change them, he will.

2nd:
The GM is the referee and the lead storyteller, the person in charge of running the game. The GM presents the stories and situations, describes the Warhammer World and its denizens, and adjudicates the rules. The GM is the most important member of your group, so choose wisely. The GM ought to be fair-minded, well spoken, and imaginative. An eye for detail is also helpful

Of the two, the 1st edition is so much less wimpy.  I mean come on, of the two, what sounds more like the GM job description for the game of Dwarves-with-mohawks-smashing-the-skulls-of-demon-lords; "The GM is HE WHO CANNOT BE DISOBEYED!", or "the GM should be fair-minded and imaginative with an eye for detail".   I mean fuck, the first sounds like Metallica, the second like Martha Stewart.

Fuck the guy's conclusions. I mean come on, that fucking jumble of non-advice that is Burning Wheel is what he considers the best way to GM?! (ooooh, the GM has the "power to begin and end scenes", clearly he is worthy... are you sure you Forge fucktards want to trust the GM with such excessive abilities?!)
Warhammer 1st's and Ambers are the two best definitions in there. The GM is in charge of the world, all the characters in it, and arbitrating the rules, and he trumps the rules themselves. Case closed.

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Settembrini

QuoteI mean come on, that fucking jumble of non-advice that is Burning Wheel

I wonder what you´d say to Burning Empires.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

John Morrow

Quote from: StuartHere's a very interesting article from Treasure Tables on How Different RPGs Define the GM's role.

As boring as it sounds, I think a GM is essentially a Game Manager.  As such, the equivalents of various management techniques can be used to run a game but it's also possible to be the equivalent of the pointy-haired boss.
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Blackleaf

Quote from: RPGPunditWarhammer 1st's and Ambers are the two best definitions in there. The GM is in charge of the world, all the characters in it, and arbitrating the rules, and he trumps the rules themselves. Case closed.

I don't see it as much about which definitions are best -- rather that there are different definitions for different games.

Settembrini

Serious Roleplaying Games call their "GM" referee.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

blakkie

I think RPGPundit does have a good point with Warhammer. If you are looking to impress the mood on the players that they are lowest of the low and should expect to be trodden on by some overlording tinpot dictator or such, and they somehow haven't already picked that up and had their spirit broken by the character generation mechanism, the the 1st edition description of the GM duites will better help bring it home. Really sets the mood for "get ready to feel lower than dog shit on a jackboot's heel".

EDIT: Incase someone misunderstands, I'm not being sarcastic about this either.
Quote from: RPGPunditFuck the guy's conclusions. I mean come on, that fucking jumble of non-advice that is Burning Wheel is what he considers the best way to GM?! (ooooh, the GM has the "power to begin and end scenes", clearly he is worthy... are you sure you Forge fucktards want to trust the GM with such excessive abilities?!)
Nah, just solid advice for good and effective play. :haw:  I was reminded of this yesterday when I ran a demo for 3 noobs with absolutely zero preperation and notification (we had one pad of grid paper, a some pens and pencils, dice, and the BWR/CharBu paring). As in we came up with characters (salvaged from the Burned Rogues pre-builts in the book), a setting, and an adventure. Basically I didn't have to come up with a bunch of stuff. Of course this ties in with the Proactive player thread I see just started up (and haven't read yet).

Incidentally I don't think that list is very comprehensive for the games it lists. They just provide small exerts. For example, and I noticed this is multiple different games, the BWR "Role of the GM" section is a full A5 page, of which they only list a short blurb from. But even that section, while a great detailed overview and guideline, doesn't list every single thing about the GM's role. There are, off the top of my head, specific references to the GM role in character generation (one of the very few unilateral vetos to turn a character back for refinement) testing rolls (GM is to outline to the player the consequences of failure before a roll is made) and the Die of Fate player-GM disagreement failsafe.
"Because honestly? I have no idea what you do. None." - Pierce Inverarity