To me, Anime and traditional Fantasy have always looked pretty much the same. Anime seems like traditional fantasy with big eyes, small  mouths, different names and oriental setting. The core themes of Good, Evil, conflict, Powerful evil overlords, magic, lone (or small groups) heroes facing impossible odds seem the standard.

I fully admit I could be missing something. I am open to being educated on the matter.

So, what core differences are there between traditional Fantasy stories and Anime stories?

Thanks,
Bill

On a technical level, anime is the general term for Japanese animation, that includes the dramas, comedies, porn and so forth, so on it's face, there is a huge difference.

But since I'm not a complete pedantic hoser, I will add that anime fantasy and traditional US fantasy are very similar. I mean The Record of Lodoss War was actually first a novellization, then animated verson of the creator Ryo Mizuno's D&D campaign.

Replace "Anime" with "Disney movies" and you'll get some of the same themes. If LotR qualifies as "traditional movies" you'll even get the obnoxious singing in both of them.

Both fantasy and some Anime taps into the same mythological roots (Campbell et al).

Eh, about those "core themes" being somehow ubiquitous in anime... Ever seen, say, Maison Ikkoku (one of my personal favourites)?

Well, Hinter, Its like this: Traditional themes about good vs. evil are much reduced in Anime. Very often it is much more complex, man vs. himself (Ghost in the Shell, for example) or voyages of self discovery, where the external threat is merely there to provide action to break up the internal dynamic. Much of the stuff is there as set dressing to keep fans excited while the real stories are told.

Is Gasaraki about giant robots and immortal apotheosis? Or is it about a boy who must confront his twisted (Amberite level twisted) family to become a man?  

What is Full Metal Panic about? Giant robots only appear in roughly every third episode, and are absent entirely from the second season?  There are 'bad guys' but no 'Evil' that must be confronted.


Lets get classic: Ninja Scroll. Sure, the badguys seem pretty evil. Supernatural powers, brutal infighting, killing lots of people just to disguise their motives. But their goals are personal goals, not supernaturally evil goals. The leader wants revenge, the people they work for want to restore the old political leaders to the Shogunate. The 'good guys' are hardly shining knights either. One is a ninja girl who can't touch anyone because her body is poisonous, another is a twisted old man who  thinks love is a tool to twist people into doing what he wants.  Shades of grey are very common in Anime. The stories are about the characters.


Of course, we ARE talking about a genre as wide as 'hollywood movies' here. :rolleyes:

Most anime is more tongue in cheek than traditional fantasy - it's more like recent fantasy in that sense.  It doesn't take itself too seriously and is often self aware of its genre  

This gives you moments of embarassing exposed panty moments mixed in with trying to save the world.

Quote from: GrimGentEh, about those "core themes" being somehow ubiquitous in anime... Ever seen, say, Maison Ikkoku (one of my personal favourites)?

No, my experience is with stuff like Lodoss War, Akira, and MD Geist mostly. Thus, I admit to a lack of serious depth in the genre and was wondering what people with more familiarity with the Genre might think.

And to be clear, I should have said Fantasy Anime to Western Fantasy, Sci-Fi Anime to Western Sci-Fi.

It has just been my experience (totally anecdotal) that most of what I see in Anime could be reproduced with a fantasy system (and in some cases, setting).

Thanks,
Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltIt has just been my experience (totally anecdotal) that most of what I see in Anime could be reproduced with a fantasy system (and in some cases, setting).

Thanks,
Bill

Dude! An anime-flavored Forgotten Realms would be lots of fun, because Drizz't would be, like, the ultimate bishonen.  

And Elminster would have a thing about The Symbul's panties.

Quote from: HinterWeltAnd to be clear, I should have said Fantasy Anime to Western Fantasy, Sci-Fi Anime to Western Sci-Fi.

That does make more sense. Maison Ikkoku, for example, is a romantic comedy without any fantasy elements or battle scenes or "evil" characters. There's conflict, of course, but then again it's a tad difficult to find a story which doesn't feature that in one form or another.

Quote from: GrimGentThat does make more sense. Maison Ikkoku, for example, is a romantic comedy without any fantasy elements or battle scenes or "evil" characters. There's conflict, of course, but then again it's a tad difficult to find a story which doesn't feature that in one form or another.

Well, I love Project A-Ko as much as the next guy but, yeah, I would not call it fantasy. I think you can find parallels though, if you want to look for them. It would be stretching it but you have B-Ko as you main villain and C-ko as your damsel in distress. But in the end, it is a closer match to comedy than fantasy.

Bill

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Dude! An anime-flavored Forgotten Realms would be lots of fun, because Drizz't would be, like, the ultimate bishonen.  

Anime Star Trek and Dragonlance would rawk.

(although having seen "Manga Star Trek" I must admit I was very disappointed with how tame and visually uninspiring it was)

Japanese manga and anime fantasy works have run the gamut.  You have Lodoss, which does D&D better than TSR's house writers ever could.  

You have slapstick comedy ala Dragon Half, in which a half-dragon princess tries to woo the pop singer/dragonslayer idol of her kingdom.

You have Berserk, which is every death metal album cover ever come to life.  It's run for close to twenty years and has a mythology at least as developed as any novel series.

CLAMP has done loads of fantasy stuff, usually camouflaging it with swooning goose-necked prettyboys who melt into one another's arms at the slightest provocation.

You have crazily high-powered battles between gods and technomages in Orion, one of the manga without which we would not have Exalted.

Note that subtext and theme are completely optional.  Berserk uses a combination of theistic morality and nihilism (classical nihilism as far as I understand it.  The rejection of morals and the ascent to godhood is a huge part of the story) to focus on the frailty of humanity.

Dragon Half, in contrast, has a really cute ending song.  I mean it.  Just give it a listen and you'll die of glee.

Just so this isn't a completely RPG-free post:  I think Berserk would fall flat on its face if you tried to run it as a "thematic" game.  At its heart, Berserk's a combat manga, and thrives on the genre's tropes.  The main characters triumph over impossible odds to realize that the BBEG of the month is really just a footsoldier in the real BBEG's army (and even he's rebelling against the true ruler of the world.)  Trying to shitcan that so you could focus on the emotional life of the characters is a fool's game.  (Admittedly, too much crunch and you will drown yourself trying to stat out the Dragon Slayer's powers, ditto the Berserk Armor.)

In conclusion, I still can't explain the giant fucking swords.  There's a porn game called "Maids and Giant Swords" and its existence is, I feel, a surer sign of Nyarlathotephian influence than anything I've seen before or since.

Anime is a medium of presentation and Fantasy is a genre. As a medium, anime can (and often does) include Fantasy subject matter. Likewise, Anime also is available in other genres (Horror, Mystery, Romance, etc).

Some gamers erroneously refer to Anime as its own genre, which creates confusion specifically when it comes to explaining its relationship to pure literary genres (e.g., Fantasy).

Anime isn't the same thing as Fantasy or Horror, it's a method that can be used to present these things.

Usually the differences are higher power levels (Dragonslave acts like a nuke spell), some additional stereotypes (bishi boy, magical girl, slightly different priests, etc.), but in general a lot of it comes from similar grounds. BESM Dungeon/Fantasy Beastiary covers some of the stuff though looking for early Japanese console RPGs likely can come up with the same information.

The various Slayers seres are very much D&D on 11.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Dude! An anime-flavored Forgotten Realms would be lots of fun, because Drizz't would be, like, the ultimate bishonen.

S. John Ross' Uresia: Grave of Heaven is very much Forgotten Realms 1st edition with magical girls, undead snowmen, slimes, and bishi boys. Both BESM and BESM d20 versions were done and a new generic version is in the works.

Quote from: GabrielAnime Star Trek and Dragonlance would rawk.

Crest/Banner of the Stars comes pretty close to Star Trek. Starblazers and Legend of Galactic Heroes are both more militaristic than Crest of the Stars and more than normal Star Trek but are also good sci-fi fleet based anime.

The difference between fantasy and anime is that the h4wt chixxorz in anime have the faces and demeanours of children.