Pendragon uses the D20, but in a direct opposed way.

If you are attempting say climbing a rock, rolling any result under your skill is a success. Simple but when fighting another knight you both roll together, and the idea is to Roll as high as you can, but under your skill level. Whoever rolls highest (without going bust) wins.

This was the way it worked in 4th edition. There were some other fancy mechanics if your skill was over 20.

Quote from: CyberzombieWhen you get down to it, *any* system is going to have you either pass or fail on a lot of things.  Either you hurt someone with your sword or you don't.  With a die pool, though, it becomes possible to combine the damage with the attack -- the more successes you get, the more damage you do.  Again, though, I'm not convinced it's the "best" solution.  Combats in Exalted take forever.  Even with simplified rules, they'd still take a long time.

So I like the possibilities of gradations, but not so much the bucket 'o' dice...

You're going to stab me for this...

But Unisystem does this.  It's a stat + skill + 10, with a default single success being a 9.  Then there's a chart so that 9-10 is 1 success, 11-12 is 2 successes, and so on.  This sounds like it would be a PITA in play, but with the chart right on the character sheet it's no problem.  You really do get the best of both worlds, a simple single die roll and the gradations of Successes.  Extra successes add to your total damage, which is a fixed number in Cinematic or can be rolled in Classic.

It works really well and really quickly.  I'm really not trying to bring it up in every thread, but it does exactly what you're looking for mechanically.

Quote from: MaddmanYou're going to stab me for this...

Maybe not *stab*, per se...  :maniac:

Quote from: MaddmanBut Unisystem does this.  It's a stat + skill + 10, with a default single success being a 9.

Logic would seem to indicate you meant "+1d10" rather than "+10".  Would that be correct?

Quote from: MaddmanThen there's a chart so that 9-10 is 1 success, 11-12 is 2 successes, and so on.  This sounds like it would be a PITA in play, but with the chart right on the character sheet it's no problem.  You really do get the best of both worlds, a simple single die roll and the gradations of Successes.  Extra successes add to your total damage, which is a fixed number in Cinematic or can be rolled in Classic.

I can see how that would work and it doesn't sound bad.

Quote from: MaddmanI'm really not trying to bring it up in every thread,

The fuck you aren't.  :yell:

Quote from: Maddman...but it does exactly what you're looking for mechanically.

I will admit it does have some potential.  Unwillingly.  

Quote from: CyberzombieI will admit it does have some potential.  Unwillingly.  

You can always download Witchcraft for free to get the mechanics without having to taint yourself with Buffy or Angel.  

Quote from: SigmundI'm not usually very good at discussions of this type, but after reading this I had a thought. How hard would it be to incorporate a system where weapons do a set base damage, and then a certain amount of bonus damage based on how well an attack roll succeeds? That way you roll just one die to hit, but you also get some gradation in how wewll ya hit and the effects that follow.

Well you could ask Fanpro. They just rebuilt Shadowrun 4 and it uses exactly that basis. Except that it is the net "hits" (successes) after you subtract the hits rolled by the defender rolling his Reaction and possibily Dodge dice.

The way Shadowrun is set up though it can get to be a lot of dice, easily a dozen if you have pretty good abilities and there are no circumstantial penalties.  Upwards of 20 dice or more if you are the baddest ass in town, working conditions are top notch, and you are tossing in Edge dice (sort of a extra effort pool).

I'm thinking about trying out The Burning Wheel system. It is similar, but the odds .  I'm not sure exactly what RPGPundit's thoughts on it would be, it's pretty high concept in it's theory. It is also self-published by one high energy and funny guy. The concept is that character is driving the story which is driving the game, and the entertainment is the story that comes out of the interaction of all the characters (PCs and NPCs).  But the action turns on the crunchie bits and it highly discourages setting aside the rules mechanics.  Mostly because good rules mechanics help, not hinder, the story and the entertainment. To do this they have the mechanics cover social and other non-combat events just as well as combat is covered. In fact their Duel of Wits, the social interaction, effectively is verbal combat.

Basically you figure out what the character you built is going to try do based on the situation and their "backstory", which is built right into crunch of the character, throw down the dice and see wtf happens.  I'm really looking forward to see in person how it plays out. I like having the dice and the character's personality and all the other character personalities guide me happens. It feels like openning a present at Christmas.

The also use pools of d6s. But their pools look like they are somewhat smaller because they use a TN (target number, roll that number or higher for a success) of 4, 3, or 2 depending on how good the character is at something. This means less dice for the same number of hits than with SR4, which uses TN 5.  The flipside is you end up with a narrower spread of total hits, so it is less random.

Quote from: Maddmanbut with the chart right on the character sheet it's no problem

If I want a game that requires a chart on the char sheet, then I'd chose the one that's the best RPG ever, Rêve.

(And now I've busted my not-so secret identity...)

Quote from: CyberzombieMaddman's favourite, "Dogs of the Vineyard", sounds particularly vile.  His example for it was some shit about a PC having a brother who was going to kill a whore for revenge over something or other, and the PC had to decide whether to stop him or not.  Whatever.  If I want to experience that kind of crap, I'll either contact my extended family or watch the Jerry Springer show.

C'mon, a barbarian going into a dungeon to kill a liche can be a soap opera if the music and lighting are just so.  Its all point of view.

You see Jerry Springer, I see a loaded situation with an angry man with a gun and just you between him and a killing that will damage the community for the worse.  It is just you between your pissed off brother and a dead whore that will haunt him forever.  Whaddya do?

Mechanics and the role-playing need not be in two different corners.  I like 'em symbiotic, one feeding off of and and helping the other.

Quote from: PakaYou see Jerry Springer, I see a loaded situation with an angry man with a gun and just you between him and a killing that will damage the community for the worse.  It is just you between your pissed off brother and a dead whore that will haunt him forever.  Whaddya do?

If I want dicey real-life situations that require delicate handling, I'll deal with fucking real life.  I want some *escapism* in my roleplaying, not more of what goes on in reality.  Yuck!

Quote from: CyberzombieIf I want dicey real-life situations that require delicate handling, I'll deal with fucking real life.  I want some *escapism* in my roleplaying, not more of what goes on in reality.  Yuck!

This is exactly how I feel. To paraphrase a film director whose name I can't recall at the moment, why should I play a game to experience something I can find out on the streets?

Quote from: CyberzombieIf I want dicey real-life situations that require delicate handling, I'll deal with fucking real life.  I want some *escapism* in my roleplaying, not more of what goes on in reality.  Yuck!

Put me solidly into the escapism bucket as well. The "Jerry Springer" school of gaming holds nothing of interest to me.

Quote from: CyberzombieIf I want dicey real-life situations that require delicate handling, I'll deal with fucking real life.  I want some *escapism* in my roleplaying, not more of what goes on in reality.  Yuck!

Dogs isn't really my cup of tea either, though I appreciate some of the stuff going on in there mechanically.  As far as forgey games go I'd love to get in on a game of My Life With Master.  One idea I heard about Dogs that I thought was pretty cool was to use it to run an Old Republic Star Wars game.  Instead of quasi-mormons, the PCs would be Jedi Knights, travelling to various star systems and sorting out local problems.  Only with laser swords and starships

If you regularly face down angry people with guns in your day to day life, I could understand why you wouldn't want that at your game table.

Quote from: PakaIf you regularly face down angry people with guns in your day to day life, I could understand why you wouldn't want that at your game table.

It's not even that. It's that we see this kind of thing on the news everyday. Some of us, myself included, have known someone injured or killed in such situations. I have no desire to deal with that kind of stuff in a game. I could counter what seems to be a snide remark by saying that if you've been raised like a veal and have no experience with the real world, then such stuff might be appealing. But I won't

Good thing you didn't Colonel.     You didn't, right?  

I like facing this stuff at the table because it is something that really bothers me and touches something important to me.  Also, it is exciting to me, as exciting as a fire-breathing dragon or >insert cool fantasy dingus here<.

That isn't to say that I don't have my share of games with kick-ass fire breathing dragons and such but a good family gun fight clears the sinuses for me.

But you don't like it at your table.

And that is where we are at.

Such is life.

Quote from: PakaI like facing this stuff at the table because it is something that really bothers me and touches something important to me.  Also, it is exciting to me, as exciting as a fire-breathing dragon or >insert cool fantasy dingus here<.

Why is that, though? I know people who have been shot to death, some who have committed suicide, and I do know at least one person in prison for killing someone. These things bother me, and it touches something important to me, too. I just can't see enjoying playing out such situations at a game table. I'm not pissing on you or anyone who does enjoy such stuff, but it's difficult for me to relate. Perhaps if you explained it, I might get a better perspective on it.