Barker didn't write fiction about Muslims taking over America and killing all the Jews, he wrote fiction about Nazis doing it, and he sat as an editor for a Nazi publication, not a Muslim publication. That's why people are saying "Barker was a nazi", because that's the relevant part here. I also see you changed your tune from "Barker had PhD when he converted to Islam, that means he knew what he was getting into" to "going to a university means you can read, so you must have read the Koran" to "what's important is that Barker read the Koran". You're completely inconsistent, as can be seen when you constantly change your points as soon as they get called out as the bullshit they are. I'm done playing this game with you, you need to acknowledge that you were wrong about all the points you made and that you dishonestly tried to change them if you want me to respond to you anymore migo. Because what's the point otherwise? You post something false, I correct you, you then immediately pretend that you didn't post that or that whatever proof doesn't count for reasons or that your actual point was something other than what you actually posted. Just admit that you've just been spouting bullshit with nothing to back it up in order to talk about your hatred for Muslims rather than actually wanting to talk about an rpg-related topic.

This is what I first said back on page 8.

QuoteAnyone who is a careful reader and researches Islam is aware of Islam's anti-Semitism (really Islam's anti-Judaism as Arabs are Semites too). As Professor Barker was highly educated and certainly a careful reader (you don't create a world as detailed and deep as Tekumel if you aren't, and you probably don't get a doctorate either), the only plausible conclusion is that he was at least aware of Islam's hostility towards Jews and that at a minimum he was OK with it.

That has always been my point. I just had to re-draw your attention to it because you didn't want to see it.

Dunno. Jewish communities thrived in islamic world through centuries. There was generally less bad blood than between Jews and Christians. It really changed I think only with foundation of Israel, which muslims took as theft of their holy land.

Quote from: migo on April 03, 2022, 06:20:43 PM
This is what I first said back on page 8.

QuoteAnyone who is a careful reader and researches Islam is aware of Islam's anti-Semitism (really Islam's anti-Judaism as Arabs are Semites too). As Professor Barker was highly educated and certainly a careful reader (you don't create a world as detailed and deep as Tekumel if you aren't, and you probably don't get a doctorate either), the only plausible conclusion is that he was at least aware of Islam's hostility towards Jews and that at a minimum he was OK with it.

That has always been my point. I just had to re-draw your attention to it because you didn't want to see it.

No it wasn't. Again, this wasn't your first point, you changed it to this after I pointed out you were in fact wrong about Barker converting when he had his PhD. This is just more bullshit trying to paper over the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: Wrath of God on April 03, 2022, 06:32:40 PM
Dunno. Jewish communities thrived in islamic world through centuries. There was generally less bad blood than between Jews and Christians. It really changed I think only with foundation of Israel, which muslims took as theft of their holy land.

Don't bother, migo has already shown a distinct lack of interest in facts when they happen to not align with his religious views.

Quote from: Wrath of God on April 03, 2022, 06:32:40 PM
Dunno. Jewish communities thrived in islamic world through centuries. There was generally less bad blood than between Jews and Christians. It really changed I think only with foundation of Israel, which muslims took as theft of their holy land.

There was more bad blood between Christians and Christians then between Jews and Christians.

Christians being famously tolerant of all other religions except slightly different Christian sects.

If you want an example of super psycho religions then I could post a picture of all the major religions founders and see what happens.

The greatest attack on Jews ever didn't come from Muslims but hey, go off.

Unsurprisingly, the Qur'an, like the Bible, is pretty inconsistent. Both books were compiled by many different people. Sure, there are many warlike passages, but there are also passages that expressly permit Muslims to associate with, and even marry, Jews and Christians.

None of which is meant to minimize the current global problem of Islamic extremism. But Muslim doesn't always equal anti-Semite.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on April 03, 2022, 10:27:51 AM
Not wrong, and Jeff Dee is already going on about how folks are attempting to leverage this incident to take control of the franchise away from them. Though I can't imagine who would want their name associated with this hot potato at this point.

Anyone that wants to make a fast buck by "liberating" Tekumel.

Quote from: Blankman on April 03, 2022, 02:07:30 PM
Barker didn't write fiction about Muslims taking over America and killing all the Jews, he wrote fiction about Nazis doing it,

Actually he didnt do that either. Isralies? Yes. Because the "Izzies" often are shooting first. But as quoted earlier in the thread the main character states theyd have preferred peace with Israel and the Jews. Which is what makes the book such a damnable thing to pin down and discredits anyone making claims of "its anti-semitic!" Its a white nationalist book. They do not want anyone not white in their land and just seem to deport them when possible. Its their allies, the brits and yanks that come across as the less cordial.

And when you think about it. That is exactly what a book promoting their agenda should be if you want to attract anyone. Show themselves as the good guys. The reasonable ones. The ones that want peace. And bitch about how unfairly they got treated and how hypocritical the "Izzies" are.

As said. That is my reading of the last 4th of the book and doing some cursory leafing through the rest looking for anything that leaps out. I may keep working through it. But it is probably more of the same. And very likely intentional.

If you are going to use the book as "proof" then at least get the story right and nail Barker for what the book is. Nazi propaganda meant to make them look good. Barker put some thought into all this.

And weirdly I ended up backing my own comment about there being other "what if" stories out there. This one from the late 40s about Hitler using advanced surgery techniques to change his face. And escapes death at the end. Was very not expecting to see this so relatively soon after WWII. Came across it out of the blue while looking for something else. Used to have an old anthology comic with a similar trick. Except it backfires on the villain who takes the identity of a Jewish Nazi hunter.

Quote from: Omega on April 04, 2022, 07:32:05 AM

Quote from: Blankman on April 03, 2022, 02:07:30 PM
Barker didn't write fiction about Muslims taking over America and killing all the Jews, he wrote fiction about Nazis doing it,

Actually he didnt do that either. Isralies? Yes. Because the "Izzies" often are shooting first. But as quoted earlier in the thread the main character states theyd have preferred peace with Israel and the Jews. Which is what makes the book such a damnable thing to pin down and discredits anyone making claims of "its anti-semitic!" Its a white nationalist book. They do not want anyone not white in their land and just seem to deport them when possible. Its their allies, the brits and yanks that come across as the less cordial.

And when you think about it. That is exactly what a book promoting their agenda should be if you want to attract anyone. Show themselves as the good guys. The reasonable ones. The ones that want peace. And bitch about how unfairly they got treated and how hypocritical the "Izzies" are.

As said. That is my reading of the last 4th of the book and doing some cursory leafing through the rest looking for anything that leaps out. I may keep working through it. But it is probably more of the same. And very likely intentional.

If you are going to use the book as "proof" then at least get the story right and nail Barker for what the book is. Nazi propaganda meant to make them look good. Barker put some thought into all this.

And weirdly I ended up backing my own comment about there being other "what if" stories out there. This one from the late 40s about Hitler using advanced surgery techniques to change his face. And escapes death at the end. Was very not expecting to see this so relatively soon after WWII. Came across it out of the blue while looking for something else. Used to have an old anthology comic with a similar trick. Except it backfires on the villain who takes the identity of a Jewish Nazi hunter.

Yes, you're making my point for me. I don't care how good the Nazi propaganda is as a piece of propaganda, the fact remains that it is Nazi propaganda about Nazis killing Jews and taking over the world. Of course the book is going to show them as the good guys, that is irrelevant. It isn't propaganda about how Hamas are the good guys.

Quote from: Wrath of God on April 03, 2022, 06:32:40 PM
Dunno. Jewish communities thrived in islamic world through centuries. There was generally less bad blood than between Jews and Christians. It really changed I think only with foundation of Israel, which muslims took as theft of their holy land.

Israel's implicit alliance with Britain also threatened the region with the specter of European imperialism.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 03, 2022, 09:11:47 PM
The greatest attack on Jews ever didn't come from Muslims but hey, go off.

Unsurprisingly, the Qur'an, like the Bible, is pretty inconsistent. Both books were compiled by many different people. Sure, there are many warlike passages, but there are also passages that expressly permit Muslims to associate with, and even marry, Jews and Christians.

None of which is meant to minimize the current global problem of Islamic extremism. But Muslim doesn't always equal anti-Semite.

Not all Muslims.

Quote from: Blankman on April 03, 2022, 06:33:16 PM

Quote from: migo on April 03, 2022, 06:20:43 PM
This is what I first said back on page 8.

QuoteAnyone who is a careful reader and researches Islam is aware of Islam's anti-Semitism (really Islam's anti-Judaism as Arabs are Semites too). As Professor Barker was highly educated and certainly a careful reader (you don't create a world as detailed and deep as Tekumel if you aren't, and you probably don't get a doctorate either), the only plausible conclusion is that he was at least aware of Islam's hostility towards Jews and that at a minimum he was OK with it.

That has always been my point. I just had to re-draw your attention to it because you didn't want to see it.

No it wasn't. Again, this wasn't your first point, you changed it to this after I pointed out you were in fact wrong about Barker converting when he had his PhD. This is just more bullshit trying to paper over the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.

It literally was my first point. It was what I said before you or anyone else responded to me.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 03, 2022, 09:11:47 PM
The greatest attack on Jews ever didn't come from Muslims but hey, go off.

Unsurprisingly, the Qur'an, like the Bible, is pretty inconsistent. Both books were compiled by many different people. Sure, there are many warlike passages, but there are also passages that expressly permit Muslims to associate with, and even marry, Jews and Christians.

None of which is meant to minimize the current global problem of Islamic extremism. But Muslim doesn't always equal anti-Semite.

The Quran has the law of abrogation, the Bible has nothing like it. Because of that the Quran isn't inconsistent and the more warlike Medina-surah trump the more peaceful Mecca-surah.

QuoteThe Quran has the law of abrogation, the Bible has nothing like it. Because of that the Quran isn't inconsistent and the more warlike Medina-surah trump the more peaceful Mecca-surah.

Bible most definitely at least in eyes of all ancient Churches have abrogation on the line of Old / New Testament