Quote from: Rafael on March 27, 2022, 05:30:46 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 05:20:27 PM

Quote from: Rafael on March 27, 2022, 05:12:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 04:57:09 PM

Quote from: Rafael on March 27, 2022, 04:17:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 03:56:55 PM
So let's all agree that Baker WAS a neo-nazi, so what? Why does that mather in an RPG forum?

The publishers of the game or some organization that benefits from his REALLY known works knew and didn't say anything...

Because we all know that saying something wouldn't have gotten them cancelled and deplatformed by the usual suspects...

And that would be bad - how exactly? Because it sure looks like Barker did those things, and that he held those beliefs, back in his day.

Can't the Tekumel Foundation, if the intention is really to uphold the memory of their friend, do so in a different way than they have chosen until now? Wouldn't it be perfectly appropriate out to tell of Barker's life and considerable influence on the RPG scene of his day without trying to act as an active game publisher or brand ambassador for "Tekumel"?

...But noone has been interested in that, am I right? 

Cancellation by proxy isn't bad...

If you trully believe that you're a monster.

Did you learn to read at the Derek Zoolander Center?

Said the kettle.

What part of they would have been tarred, feathered and run out of town by no wrong doing of their own you didn't understand?

Furthermore, can you point to ANY neo-nazi ideology on Tekumel?

Why is it relevan for the game that Barker was one? Assuming he was and that he never changed since on Tekumel you don't find that shit.

So, why is it relevant for the fundation? Why did they need to cut their own necks so you cultists coluld call them neo-nazis by proxy?

Tell me who said this and how old is it: "If 11 people sit at a table to eat and one is a nazi now you have 11 nazis"
And then you idiots wonder why the fundation didn't say shit assuming they knew.

Like I said, if you believe in cancellation by proxy you're a monster.

It's too boring to be spending time on your manufactured arguments when we could also be talking about the real ones.

Learn to trust the process, booger.

Meaning you have no argument, I don't trust you, because you haven't earned it, therefore what you call "real arguments" needs to be examined before accepting your claims.

Is that clear and concise enough for your smoothbrain?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 05:35:27 PM
Meaning you have no argument, I don't trust you, because you haven't earned it, therefore what you call "real arguments" needs to be examined before accepting your claims.

Is that clear and concise enough for your smoothbrain?

Well, you evidently don't trust spelling and punctuation, either.



Now, so I don't go and take my nap on a totally destructive note - the argument remains what you yourself initially postulated:

QuoteSo let's all agree that Baker WAS a neo-nazi, so what? Why does that mather in an RPG forum?

To which I responded:

QuoteCan't the Tekumel Foundation, if the intention is really to uphold the memory of their friend, do so in a different way than they have chosen until now?

So, given that the reality of the situation is that Barker is quite probably going to be canceled, and canceled HARD, what are the next steps for the foundation - beyond bitching, moaning, and a possible mea culpa? Where do they go from here, in your opinion?

Quote from: Rafael on March 27, 2022, 06:23:11 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 05:35:27 PM
Meaning you have no argument, I don't trust you, because you haven't earned it, therefore what you call "real arguments" needs to be examined before accepting your claims.

Is that clear and concise enough for your smoothbrain?

Well, you evidently don't trust spelling and punctuation, either.



Now, so I don't go and take my nap on a totally destructive note - the argument remains what you yourself initially postulated:

QuoteSo let's all agree that Baker WAS a neo-nazi, so what? Why does that mather in an RPG forum?

To which I responded:

QuoteCan't the Tekumel Foundation, if the intention is really to uphold the memory of their friend, do so in a different way than they have chosen until now?

So, given that the reality of the situation is that Barker is quite probably going to be canceled, and canceled HARD, what are the next steps for the foundation - beyond bitching, moaning, and a possible mea culpa? Where do they go from here, in your opinion?

English isn't my first language, and when they updated the forum it stoped correcting my spelling. As if being a grammar nazi was an argument.

Why would they need to do/say anything? What bearing does it have on the game? Can anyone point to exactly where in Tekumel is the nazi ideology?

I honestly don't give a fuck about Barker being canceled after death, it's not like it will hurt him, if his family thinks this will hurt them they need to do whatever they think they need to do.

You fail to realize there's at least 2 different discussions going on:

Was Barker a nazi?

Should Tekumel be put in the Red List because Barker was a nazi?

So, lets agree, doesn't mean I am convinced one way or the other, but even IF HE WAS... What the fuck does that matter for the game/hobby?

If the fundation asked me I would tell them to tell all the SJW mob to go eat a bag of dicks, the game has zero nazi ideology on it, from reading it it would seem Barker stoped being one if he ever was one and Barker is dead and doesn't benefit from the sales of the game.

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 02:14:43 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 23, 2022, 11:09:22 PMI have actually investigated. My conclusions are based on my own investigation.

So you have uncovered something that isnt just guesswork that points to the foundation being up to no good?

I have networks of people that talk to me, and some of that is said in confidence, or they ask me to wait (for various reasons) before talking more about it. I can tell you, and you'll just have to choose whether to believe me, that I know details about all this that are not yet public.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:24:27 PM
You fail to realize there's at least 2 different discussions going on:

Was Barker a nazi?

Should Tekumel be put in the Red List because Barker was a nazi?

Nobody is making the second argument. Tekumel is a setting, not a publisher. It would make no sense whatsoever to put it on the red list.

Quote from: Pat on March 27, 2022, 10:44:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:24:27 PM
You fail to realize there's at least 2 different discussions going on:

Was Barker a nazi?

Should Tekumel be put in the Red List because Barker was a nazi?

Nobody is making the second argument. Tekumel is a setting, not a publisher. It would make no sense whatsoever to put it on the red list.

PRECISELY. Your games are yours, unquestionably, and with all implications; the creators, whoever they might have been, don't sit with you at the gaming table.

It's not like Tekumel is going to be stricken from the history books, either. It's just that its value as a business brand just dropped to absolute zero.

...And that's what's evidently irking some people, also because there's reason to believe that some might have acted in bad faith when they intentionally withheld information about Barker's connection to the American neonazi movement. It's this act of bad faith that might get them "canceled" - not, whatever, their general proximity to Barker.

Now, not really sure what the work of the "Tekumel Foundation" really entails, or what they have actually managed to get done in terms of "charitable work" - but if I had bought a license from them, or paid them any sort of money for other services, I'd now be suing. In fact, I would be very surprised if some folks wouldn't.

Quote from: Rafael on March 28, 2022, 06:31:41 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 27, 2022, 10:44:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:24:27 PM
You fail to realize there's at least 2 different discussions going on:

Was Barker a nazi?

Should Tekumel be put in the Red List because Barker was a nazi?

Nobody is making the second argument. Tekumel is a setting, not a publisher. It would make no sense whatsoever to put it on the red list.

PRECISELY. Your games are yours, unquestionably, and with all implications; the creators, whoever they might have been, don't sit with you at the gaming table.

It's not like Tekumel is going to be stricken from the history books, either. It's just that its value as a business brand just dropped to absolute zero.

...And that's what's evidently irking some people, also because there's reason to believe that some might have acted in bad faith when they intentionally withheld information about Barker's connection to the American neonazi movement. It's this act of bad faith that might get them "canceled" - not, whatever, their general proximity to Barker.

Now, not really sure what the work of the "Tekumel Foundation" really entails, or what they have actually managed to get done in terms of "charitable work" - but if I had bought a license from them, or paid them any sort of money for other services, I'd now be suing. In fact, I would be very surprised if some folks wouldn't.

Given that Tekumel material is still available through DTRPG, I don't see the "brand" as having no value. True, there will be some that will not be able to stomach that the work was produced by M.A.R. Barker and will not buy it. But there will be others that will be able to separate the art from the artist.

I looked at the Tekumel Foundation website: "The mission of the Tékumel Foundation is to preserve and promote the World of Tekumel as the creative legacy of Prof. Barker."
https://www.tekumelfoundation.org/about/foundation

While I would have guessed that it is a "charity" under some IRS designation, nothing is mentioned on the foundation website as to what specific type of charity it is.

And as for suing, what would you sue them for?

Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

You could just fuck off. We have enough trolls already.

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 09:36:59 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

You could just fuck off. We have enough trolls already.

And you can eat my dick.

Or you could do the adult thang and just address my post instead of the ad hominem tactic.

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:42:27 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 09:36:59 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

You could just fuck off. We have enough trolls already.

And you can eat my dick.

Or you could do the adult thang and just address my post instead of the ad hominem tactic.

I didn't start the ad hominems. You used hyperbole, insults, and framed any opposing points in the worst possible way. There's nothing to address except you acting like an immature piece of shit.

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 10:47:43 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:42:27 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 09:36:59 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

You could just fuck off. We have enough trolls already.

And you can eat my dick.

Or you could do the adult thang and just address my post instead of the ad hominem tactic.

I didn't start the ad hominems. You used hyperbole, insults, and framed any opposing points in the worst possible way. There's nothing to address except you acting like an immature piece of shit.

Are you going to address the point?

The fucking book has been on sale for two decades; nary a peep.

Gets attached to Barker? Suddenly it's a problem.

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 10:54:22 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 10:47:43 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:42:27 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 09:36:59 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

You could just fuck off. We have enough trolls already.

And you can eat my dick.

Or you could do the adult thang and just address my post instead of the ad hominem tactic.

I didn't start the ad hominems. You used hyperbole, insults, and framed any opposing points in the worst possible way. There's nothing to address except you acting like an immature piece of shit.

Are you going to address the point?

The fucking book has been on sale for two decades; nary a peep.

Gets attached to Barker? Suddenly it's a problem.

Is the Serpent's Walk RPG-related? No, not until it was associated with Barker.

Why is this a hard concept.

Quote from: Pat on March 27, 2022, 10:44:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:24:27 PM
You fail to realize there's at least 2 different discussions going on:

Was Barker a nazi?

Should Tekumel be put in the Red List because Barker was a nazi?

Nobody is making the second argument. Tekumel is a setting, not a publisher. It would make no sense whatsoever to put it on the red list.

Ok, I'm confused.  Then what should go on the red list?

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 10:54:22 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 10:47:43 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:42:27 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 09:36:59 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on March 28, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
Would this be a good time to point out that Barker's naughty novel is for sale on the websites of Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble, and Books-A-Million, among others, for $20 a pop? And apparently has been for some time?

Or do I need to let a little time pass so all the fine, upstanding people of the planet can properly display their Good Guy Badges and have their asses sniffed?

I'm horrible at timing these sorts of things, so... some guidance here?

Joe Schmuck writes a novel about surviving nazis staging a reunion tour... no big deal.

Joe Schmuck turns out to be the guy who glued together a fantasy world really only known among the denizens of a niche hobby? Call fucking CNN.

You could just fuck off. We have enough trolls already.

And you can eat my dick.

Or you could do the adult thang and just address my post instead of the ad hominem tactic.

I didn't start the ad hominems. You used hyperbole, insults, and framed any opposing points in the worst possible way. There's nothing to address except you acting like an immature piece of shit.

Are you going to address the point?

The fucking book has been on sale for two decades; nary a peep.

Gets attached to Barker? Suddenly it's a problem.

Is the Serpent's Walk RPG-related? No, not until it was associated with Barker.

Why is this a hard concept.

Yes.

Exactly my point I was making.